Consolidated Business & Enterprise Computing Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. samus

    samus Member

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    *SMASHES LIKE BUTTON*

    Kinda neatly articulating my problem today. It would be useful to engage IT in a conversation about a tech solution, but that's not shiny enough. Lets' engage <cloud vendor> that promises the world, but delivers a web front end with no data in it, and expect IT to have it working in less than a week. And have it integrate with our LOB apps with roots in 1994.

    Bah, im going back on seek and the iworkfor.nsw website.
     
  2. millsy_c

    millsy_c Member

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    Very fast trains
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    expecting a customer to accurately define their needs will fail for the same reason that they can't give a coherent and meaningful description of their issue when they call tech support.

    it's the same underlying issue as always. they have no understanding of how the solution works, generally no interest in acquiring it, and care only about the end result. and even then they can't explain it beyond a combination of vague testiculation and "I'll know it when I see it" style responses.
     
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  4. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    understood.gif

    I don't expect the customer to accurately define their needs. I expect the service provider to work with the customer in an ethical way to maximise the safety and security of the customer towards the customer's true goal, rather than the provider's own profits. I also expect that this will never happen, because money/greed/late-capitalism/SFA-regulation.

    Hence, "ethical engineering: the oxymoron" comments that started this discussion.
     
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  5. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Those aren't mutually exclusive, although it's much harder than just going for the easy buck.
     
  6. caspian

    caspian Member

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    how does the service provider accomplish this if the customer can't explain what they want? I'm no fan of service providers but adding the additional layer into the process between customer and supplier doesn't make things better, it makes them worse. while their provider collects their fee along the way.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. 2SHY

    2SHY Member

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    [​IMG]

    Fact.
     
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  8. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Communication. Back and forth. Slowly removing the unimportant cruft, whittling towards an answer that's more correct.

    Complex ideas require complex communication to get complex results. That's life. That's business. There's no way in hell a customer can explain that on the first go, nor a provider/vendor/service-department/whatever can come up with a solution on the first go.

    So where's the fault? Impatience. When people want complex answers dumbed down, or solutions rushed. And that's why people are proposing better ethics in engineering. Because a part of those ethics are going slow, double checking, doing the due diligence, and accepting that difficult things take time and money to solve, and can't be rushed.

    You know, the opposite of what shareholders want, which is quick wins short term, with fuck all concern for longevity or sustainability.
     
  9. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    thats mah boi.

    At least till he wises up, leaves for a massive payrise and reduction in work hours.
     
  10. 2SHY

    2SHY Member

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    Becoming a Vendor slut is a part of that right ?
     
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  11. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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  12. millsy_c

    millsy_c Member

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    That or spend the budget before it disappears, so rushing to a quick contract signature and then 'work it all out once it's signed (tm)'
     
  13. bcann

    bcann Member

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    So IBM's business model, with exorbitant change of scope costs(tm)...

    and no real end goal in mind other then milking it till it runs dry, and then send another invoice with at least 8 figures.
     
  14. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Well if you want to know how much it costs, how about figuring out what you have, what you need and then what you're ultimately prepared to pay for to achieve you're desired result?

    Oh you can't do that. Well buddy boy, open up your cheque book.
     
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  15. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Oh i can, vendors usually do all in their power to not have me in a room, in a way i'm kinda like elvis junior. The thing is i don't take no for an answer, and i ask LOTS of questions, i take an almost fetish like delight in poking salesmen and pointing out the huge holes in the shit their trying to shovel into whomever i'm working for and read the contracts including ALL the fine print (Real estate agents also love me ... not)

    Don't get me wrong i don't begrudge people making money, but i will bitchslap anyone who tries to shovel subpar shit that i'm then going to have to look after for years to come.
     
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  16. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    I'm the person we bring in for people like you.

    Generally onsite admins have no fucking clue imo. I'd say maybe 10% do?
     
  17. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    Why do I need to tell you how much I'm prepared to pay, for you to tell me how much something costs?
     
  18. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Well how else is their army of lawyers gonna get paid?
     
  19. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Then call me Mr 10% ;) like i said i don't begrudge people making money, but i do begrudge people taking the piss and then not delivering. or just not delivering. However you and me play in completely different ball parks and that is fine.

    Exactly NEVER show your hand to a sales rep, because magically whatever you got, is how much it costs, plus GST.
     
  20. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Because sometimes you can spend more, get a more robust, extendable solution to meet your needs.

    Other times you can spend less, and have something that will get the job done, but not be as nice to work with, extend, etc.

    Choices motherfucker. I'm gonna give you a competitive price - but do I give you a fucking Merc/Audi/BMW or a shitbox kia?
     

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