Consolidated Business & Enterprise Computing Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. wazza

    wazza Member

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    Yes. My employer has made it clear that WFH is not an ongoing thing post pandemic, so I'm looking and would definitely take a pay cut to WFH, or if considering multiple offers the one with better remote offerings would win out even if it was at a significantly reduced pay.
     
  2. looktall

    looktall Working Class Doughnut

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    Speaking as a person who took a pay cut to move into his current job, never underestimate the benefit of taking improved work conditions over the pay packet.
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I took a fair pay cut to get into my current job. from a number of aspects it has been well worth the investment.

    if I could drop a substantial chunk of my living and commuting expenses I would happily step backwards if that is what it took to enable it. the improvement in additional sleep, additional personal time, and just generally lower bullshit factor involved in commuting to sit at much the same desk achieving exactly the same thing would be worth it.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I feel like there's been quite the awakening from employees (more than employers) that quality of life elements are more valuable than pure cash.

    We're not going to see companies trying to out bid each other for quality staff, but rather "out quality" each other. And the places that pull this ye olde "everyone needs to be in the cube farm so the overwatchers can make sure they're all visibly miserable" leftover stuff from the previous century is going to be the difference between whether places can attract top tier talent, or whether they get monkeys who can barely pull levers on demand.

    Ironically, now is the time for companies to make great savings, pay people less and hey them to supply their own hardware, and trade that for simple things like telling them they only have to be in the office once a quarter.

    Any place that can't is revealing their true colours. They can't change, and their management can't give up their need to micro manage. Not a place good people with in demand skills want to work.
     
  5. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

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    I dunno, its far too easy for the likes of B&EC veterans to wax lyrical, along with hipster brogrammers / FAANG techies posting on reddit. Our jerbs are in demand, but A LOT of people do not have the same leverage.

    Is there a big shift underway? For sure. Are a lot of people going to miss out? You betcha. Its all echo chamber high fiving from introverted IT staff or borderline boomers / DINKs cashed up enough to do the sea change IMO.

    Also glass half empty, but 'why do they need to be in the office' isn't terribly far away from 'why do they need to be in the country at all'....
     
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  6. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

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    That's assuming that 'why do they need to be in the country at all' = outsourcing which generally results in garbage quality work.
     
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  7. wazza

    wazza Member

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    The last Sydney lockdown confirmed it for me, my stress and anxiety levels were massively reduced, led to better (and more) sleep, and I was far more productive (and at higher value tasks) than when in the office due to reduced interruptions. A significant number of co-workers reported the same, and many want some level of WFH to continue. It's just senior management have a perception that people won't work unless they're in the office, and refuse to actually look at peoples achievements.
    We've also had a couple of absolutely ideal applicants turn down offers (not just in IT either) due to the lack of ongoing WFH, but no discussion will be had regarding it.

    A lot of it will be IT people, because of the type of people that IT seems to attract but also because it's one of the jobs most suited to remote work. My echo chamber extends a bit further than IT though and has quite a few highly extroverted people who would feel like they're dying without being the center of attention - even they want at least some level of WFH though in their case it's usually more related to cutting their travel time than anything else.... we've also lost a significant number of these people since the last lockdown, and they've all moved to companies much closer to where they live and usually with some degree of WFH allowed.

    IMO there is still a huge skills gap between AU and the cheaper countries, and for the most part any company that hasn't learned from the mistakes of others trying to outsource overseas probably isn't the sort of company that I'd want to work for. I'd also be a bit surprised if the pandemic hasn't also shone a massive torch on some of the risks you would get with overseas staff - it may be better next time around (or may not be) but Indian call centers had very little capacity to have people WFH (spoke with a few for ongoing issues who could not make outbound calls from home, only accept inbound or use IM/email) and you'd have to be fairly concerned about the virus wiping out your remote workforce over there at the moment too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  8. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    This isn't just IT I'm talking about. There's an enormous volume of "digital paper pushers" who don't need to be in their cube farms to fill in their macro driven spreadsheets.

    Tradies, mechanics, nurses, etc? No, of course not. But Australia is rife with FIRE economy workers, all of whom could be equally as productive with a Windows365 account on the end of a 5G connection.

    I'm going to do that thing again where I say stuff and offend everyone, but of folks are relying on income from work that can be outsourced for the same quality but a tenth the price, it's time to hit up Pluralsight/Udemy/Skillshare and learn some new things (at least start there, because those places rarely teach valuable things at expert level - that's up to the individual to expand on).

    I'm not subtle about the sorts of paths I recommend people take, particularly in IT. But if people aren't regularly pushing into new territory, they should expect bad things for their careers. Automation is an arms race, and there's billions to be made in replacing people with small shell scripts.

    The in demand skill is not so much thing A or thing B, it's learning new things. And that is precisely the thing that rarely works when outsourced to places that only follow procedure rote, and even then fuck that up half the time.

    And again, my thoughts on this are well known. If it can be automated, it should. Humans were not made to push buttons and pull levers. Work should not be "adult day care".
     
  9. millsy

    millsy Member

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    I don't mind working as part of a global team if they're competent.

    Offshoring work <> bad work if the primary driver is for talent and not price, it's just most people are used to it being price.
     
  10. caspian

    caspian Member

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    one of my personal truisms is that no CEO ever has woken up in the morning and decided to offshore something to improve quality/service/anything. it's always to make it cheaper. with "flexible" just a synonym for cheaper in this context.

    and I've never yet seen that not be accompanied by a reduction in quality, because if the people involved had the same level of competence - they'd command the same money.
     
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  11. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Sometimes you outsource because you can't sack, then after 2-3 years its all in house again with new staff. Seen this a few times with public sector.

    I also outsourced programming to the Ukraine and other Baltic states because the quality was good and the price was better than local.
     
  12. Unframed

    Unframed Member

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    Every day I see the results of offshoring, within my org and outside. Huge corporations we support (think some of the largest in the world) have 1 team overseas that needs so much hand holding we have to make special documentation for their environment purely because they struggle with basic enterprise concepts. As far as I'm aware the company doesn't care how woefully inefficient it is because they don't see the value in paying for a highly skilled team when there are cheaper options that ultimately just work as a proxy for vendor support to fix their environment.
     
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

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    up until the vendor get pissed off at the business effectively outsourcing the tier 3 role to them and jacks up their pricing at next contract negotiation, anyway.

    but hey, by that time tier 1's role has generally been outsourced to tier 2, and tier 2 have delegated their ability to think independently to tier 3, so there should be few remaining surprises for anyone. other than manglement a few years hence who cop the increased vendor support fee, and by that time the dickheads who made the decision has long since fucked off to destroy their next company.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  14. randomman

    randomman Member

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    I wish I could piss off before completion of my projects and get a nice golden handshake and glowing recommendation.
     
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  15. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    You are obviously not manglement, therefore...
    snowflake.png
     
  16. miicah

    miicah Member

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    I do IT work in a school, which is shit pay compared to my qualifications, but I get 6 weeks holiday and flexible working hours. It has been a real boon with my first kid.
     
  17. Unframed

    Unframed Member

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    My company has stated that moving forward we are looking to only require a day or 2 per month in the office once covid buggers off. I'm content with that and we do have fully remote employees too which kinda makes me think moving to somewhere I can afford to buy isn't unrealistic these days.
     
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  18. randomman

    randomman Member

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    Oh yes.

    Oh no. *cries in British Columbian*
     
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  19. Unframed

    Unframed Member

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    I was more thinking Tassie.

    On a rant based note - how the hell are MSPs so slow at doing basic tasks. Was doing some file transfer tests with an MSP on behalf of their customer. I ask to copy a file from location A to B with windows explorer. They used 1 explorer window for the whole thing having to type the unc paths each time we had to go back or forth for whatever reason. They struggled soooo much with super basic Windows navigation, I just don't get how you can be in this industry and not learn some tricks for navigation.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Because your company bought their "skills" in hourly blocks.
     
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