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Consolidated Business & Enterprise Computing Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Diode

    Diode Member

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    Linux l337ism. The motto is nothing Microsoft is any good.

    We're going through this at work currently. Anything that uses Microsoft is suddenly our teams responsibility. Anything Linux... well if it serves the customer we're employed to serve we also need to work with Linux and not throw it to the other team. :p

    At a high level of IT management Google as been in and they are seriously considering Google Docs and Mail, even though from what I've heard it doesn't do everything we want it to. Currently there has been no discussion around Office 365.

    From my own reading for the now I'd say Office 365 is still the better tool especially for an organisation that has been using the office suit for a long time. The question will be who will be the better tool 2 years from now?

    Keeping the status quo doesn't mean you've stagnated, The office suit has good powerful tools and it's really up for the new players to deliver something as feature rich as the current offering.

    Personally at home I use Libre Office. Why the hell would I need to pay an outrageous amount for my basic productivity requirements. :p
     
  2. millsy

    millsy Member

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    15 dollar HUP ;) Haha
     
  3. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    From personal experience 90% of users could use any office productivity tool as their requirements are so basic that the skill transfers from on product to the other. Seriously most peoples use of Word is very limited, if you sat them in front of any word processor they would easily create documents the same way they always have. Spreadsheets are the same, 80% of people do not use complex formulas and could use any spreadsheet product.

    Email, this is a hard one because some organizations have embedded calendar functionality which is where Outlook/Exchange integration is a winner, I have used many products but none stack up yet, and I'm a FOSS advocate.

    The other issue is that FOSS doesn't have a complete integrated solution, there are solutions that are cobbled together but not yet fully integrated, and those that say they are, and come close, cost money for licensing.

    like the Linux Desktop, Office Productivity is very close but requires some additional training for the lay MS Office user to convert over, and as a business decision there is no cost saving when you factor in additional training and lost productivity, plus 99% of office workers with 1 year experience have knowledge of the MS Office in the marketplace.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  4. millsy

    millsy Member

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    ^ Bang on. I think this is where Elvis is coming from in the sense it's a waste of money when you don't even use the features.

    But obviously there's more to the puzzle than just the cost of software :)

    The one awesome side of the whole gdocs / office 365 scenario is that you can move office workers off fat desktops :)
     
  5. hosh0

    hosh0 Member

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    It's interesting to see viewpoints from different people and I've always found that a lot of sys admins want to keep the status quo, unless it's something they want to do then it's give me money!!! Situations like this a good CIO is with their weight in gold imo.
     
  6. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    I thought that had been well established, you're in a niche industry, with very specialized users and needs, and in your corner, Google Apps is suitable for 99% of the workload that MS Office would traditionally handle

    Stagnation is a big issue agreed, but sticking with a platform != stagnation.

    [Southpark Meme]
    If You're still On XP, you're gonna have a bad time
    [/SouthparkMeme]

    If they were a Linux shop, still running a linux build from 2001, the meme would still apply.


    The system is super broken;

    Good work is not rewarded enough
    Terrible work is not punished enough
    and Mediocre work is rewarded enough to stop people striving to do better.


    I could push change, but I'm not pushing change for changes sake, which is what a move away from MS Office would be.

    I'll pick my battles and push change where it offers a quantifiable benefit to the business, But I'm not burning goodwill on a campaign to switch away from MS Office, to something 'just as good, but not quiet' that offers no real cost savings, and would be met with significant user push back.
     
  7. millsy

    millsy Member

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    I somewhat disagree, I feel it's the business that wants to keep the status quo because they have something that works so why change it.

    A good sysadmin should always be striving for a more efficient way to do things.
     
  8. hosh0

    hosh0 Member

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    A business should always be looking to find new avenues to utilize technology to save costs or deliver a better experience to their staff or users. Thinking what works for me well today is not always the best answer and most sysadmins are too busy dealing with things that are breaking today to worry about a future direction.

    Stuff needs to be thought out at an overall organizational level and I'm not saying lets move to this product, but more we want to move away from having stand alone office software to something that will allow people to work from anywhere with any device, because we believe this will offer x y z.

    A good CIO can identify trends and translate that to an actual business gain and provide strategic vision to the business for how they can utilize those gains to increase profit or productivity or happiness of staff etc. Sysadmins are far too absorbed in technology to make these type of decisions without bias. Again I fully understand most CIO's are rubbish business people who think they understand IT and then try and go too low level, which is why I am saying a good CIO is worth their weight in gold.
     
  9. millsy

    millsy Member

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    Yeah, I think we're on the same point of view here :)
     
  10. hosh0

    hosh0 Member

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    Yeah, change for changes sake isn't good. But sometimes change that introduces short term pain but is part of a larger and longer term plan is fine imo.
     
  11. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Ultimately though it's a business decision not an IT one. IT comes up with the ideas (and hopefully a sound business case), but unless the business will stump up the dough or the 'big stick' to enact the change it's all for nothing.
     
  12. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    To Stick with our Libre Vs MS Office example, Whats the long term gain? What is the payback of investing resources in this migration?
     
  13. malbert

    malbert Member

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    I'm curious how many of the MS shops in the previous posts go through a holistic comparative assessment of Office alternatives with each iteration/licence period, or whether they just cough up the cash.

    edit b4 flamez: I'm not suggesting that this assessment would change the current course of action away from Office, merely that in the absence of such a comparison there is potentially a 'better way of doing things' that isn't being looked at.

    Regarding training/education etc I have one thing to say - the 2007 ribbon :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  14. tin

    tin Member

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    Especially if that efficiency can be turned into "play time" :)

    Unrelated - found this interesting cabling install on Friday. It's quite an old install, but seriously how does someone manage to do this and not notice?

    Click to view full size!


    Click to view full size!


    Needless to say, it didn't work at all.
     
  15. hosh0

    hosh0 Member

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    Yup, which is again why a good CIO helps as he/she can help be a force for IT at the board level.

    NFI? It could be a variety of reasons and there could be no logical reason. I wouldn't have the slightest clue for this specific instance what the business's thinking was.
     
  16. bcann

    bcann Member

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    This is true .... to a degree. pushing something that is massively disruptive, just because future licensing costs are less, without comparing it to the costs of training and getting people to use that product and seeing if you actually get a return on your investment is silly.

    most businesses run stuff into the ground, and it sounds to me like elvis wants to change because its what he wants to use. the reality is MS office is the most widely used business productivity tools out there. yes its overpriced, yes they keep changing the damn things UI to seemingly piss me off, but it is still the most widely used app out there and people know how to use it and know how it functions.
     
  17. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    I've been through a few, just 'coughing up the cash' isn't really an option, when everything must have a recorded reasonable justification behind it.

    In some of the more risk-averse (read: luddite) organisations I've been in, its the users that drove the change from 2003, because they new system from Harvey Norman has 2007/2010 on it, and they got used to using it at home. This helped negate much of the required training that we would have had to fork out for.

    With the "Home computer" becoming less and less relevant (and more and more varied), this driver won't be their in the future, and the next time a wholesale change is introduced, I expect alternatives to be much more competitive (in terms of TCO and a User Acceptance)

    I think (in places that aren't niche) MS will win the next round, but the one after that is anyones game.
     
  18. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    I agree completely.

    We're due for Office 2015 this year - I'm pretty sure thats a given for most MS shops. Beyond 2015 really comes down to what they do in the space.

    My other pet peeve about Libre/Open/whatever is that they aren't exactly doing anything new. They are simply playing catchup / feature complete w/ MS Office. If they want to close the gap, they need to mimic Outlook - which every year that MS says "this is the last year of Public Folders!" should become easier.
     
  19. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Until educational institutions stop insisting on MS document formats as the only way to submit your work, MS will win.

    Personally, all government and educational institutions should be forced to use an open document format, thus alleviating the lock in to specific software. But this is just a dream.
     
  20. mr_death44

    mr_death44 Member

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    I have the same issue with defence. Our solution. PDF. We don't send out any document to any client unless it is an electronically signed PDF. If your business can't read PDF, you need to get out of the 80's
     

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