Consolidated Business & Enterprise Computing Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Disco_Stu

    Disco_Stu Member

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    Don't even think about going for an ISO standard, you are just paying for a label.

    Go Luke 212:2014. This standard encompasses how to whitebox everything, methods for racing to the bottom, and gaining employment in IT positions with zero idea of what you are doing.
     
  2. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    I really do love this thread on friday afternoons.

    If Agg ever prints an OCAU book, he should get all the friday posts from this thread and make a chapter.
     
  3. tobes

    tobes Member

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    So Luke212:2014 is a grenade in a tin of white paint in the center of the DC after ensuring that any and all wheels in the vicinity have been filled with grout?
     
  4. millsy

    millsy Member

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    Well I mean you'd think that... Experience tells me otherwise.
     
  5. GiantGuineaPig

    GiantGuineaPig Member

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    Surely a doctor/surgeon would be the best at risk, because they've got a human life in their hands?

    Therefore, winning the game Operation and not causing the guy's nose to light up will be listed on my resume.

    As an aside, let me guess - Luke212 studied Finance, which is the reason he's so good at IT?
     
  6. looktall

    looktall Working Class Doughnut

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    Studied? Probably.
    Passed? ?
     
  7. thetron

    thetron Member

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    Sometimes a companies will have legal requirements to store documents offsite at somewhere like document storage company because tapes need be kept until 5 years retention period.

    Also maybe because the company themselves has no secure offsite storage and courier drop them to offsite

    A client is currently spending $2000 nilly on backup tapes alone every 3 months. Last quote was discounted to $1400

    Which is getting crazy when you do the math
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  8. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Thats roughly 95.2TB of space @ "retail" prices assuming you're getting 3.4TB compressed on a 2.25 Native Tape (which is a more than acceptable average over a dataset).

    You spend shitloads more on SAN/NAS/Cloud space. And you lose huge amounts of *real* replication. I.e if you lose a dataset or a DB, you can simply go back a month or whatever.

    When I worked in Canberra, one government agency was lamenting about the $2-3k/month on tapes - however didn't want to discuss the fact that we had ZERO tape reusage. We backed up the entire environment once every week (with differentials covering the rest of the week), we sent the Tapes to Recall and we never ever saw them again outside of restores and media exercising. Infinite Retention, every week. Mandated by the Agency itself.

    I'm not saying that you don't need some retention - but the generally accepted standard for GFS rotations is dailies and Weeklies are recycled monthly, Monthlies are recycled annually and Annuals are kept forever.

    If you need better granularity than that - you need to move to a product that supports per-file versioning like TSM.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  9. thetron

    thetron Member

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    LTO4 have average storage space of 1.6TB and all backup are done by another team elsewhere in the globe.
    However one our problems is this process isnt automated and been honeymoon period of 12 month since the new backup system was implemented

    Risk of backup failure is very human element because relys on someone both to organise the backup and then tell another person a list of tapes needed to be unloaded/loaded. Which is labor intensive and boring


    These days we have shadow copies running on folder/files. Which can both act like a backup service and version control
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  10. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    1.6TB? I want your data set. I would never assume more than 1.2 for LTO.

    Still @ $19/tape retail - you're still at 126TB @ $2k. (FWIW I'm putting LTO4 Tape into Google Shopping).

    Eh? Backups should be automated in terms of actually running. Sure they are finnicky to make sure you're getting exactly what you want (usually exclude a few open files on terminal servers etc) - but once you've got your exclude lists sorted, all you have to do is feed it tape.

    Sorting your media pools and retention policies should see a really easy, once a week (in most cases) solution of;

    1. Get these tapes in from Offsite
    2. Add these new tapes to the media pool (if required)
    3. Take these tapes from Onsite to Offsite.

    Effectively Tapes in, Tapes out.

    Changing magazines the size of what you should be dealing with (~30 tapes/month) should be a 30-40 minute job from start to finish - scheduling your library inventory to fire an appropriate amount of time before the backup.

    Your software can basically just shoot people an email to do this. Get a big enough library and it will even make sure all those tapes are sitting in your mail slot for you, and then suck them back into the library when you're done.

    Shadow copies isn't a backup. At all. In any sense. Ever.

    Shadow copies won't save your Exchange DB. Your AD. Your Registries (really).

    Shadow copies are great at "oh shite, I moved this folder" or "damn, got crypto lockered". They are really there to stop your first line "derp I deleted something" restores - which is entirely in line with what i said above.

    They do nothing for complete system restores, drive failures, etc. Or Databases etc. Or disconnected Archives for compliance/historical reasons.
     
  11. thetron

    thetron Member

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    These guys take 1-6tb of data alone and grows 100gb a week because taking lidar point clouds, plans for pits and doing drill/blast plans

    They're $56 a pop and your looking at ebay. Some organization ban employees from doing ebay jobs and encourage them to stick with approved vendor suppliers
     
  12. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Nice. At least it compresses well :D


    If you're paying $56/tape - whats your details - I'll sell them to you for $44/tape and still make a tidy profit. Real HP media.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  13. Iceman

    Iceman Member

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    About a quarter ago we were getting hps labeled for about $45 ea I think. No other business with that vendor however.

    However I think LTO is only good for having an offline backup. Its slow, inefficient when things expire at different times, and despite how people use it, its longevity sucks.
     
  14. thetron

    thetron Member

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    Also I think LTO have limited read/write limit
     
  15. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Agreed on offline backup. TSM manages file-level versioning/retention (big part of why DB2's roots are in TSM) for you, but most others are just "this set expires this time and now they are all scratch".

    Regarding longevity - I really don't know what you people are doing with tapes. Like seriously. I have had no troubles restoring tapes from "off site storage" (e.g Recall, Grace, etc) that are 10+ years old.

    I burn though 1-2 tapes a year in a set of 40-50 for SMB or far remote clients (per client for 4 week rotation) - which is literally fuck all. They outgrow the media size before the media carks it. This is stuff being handled by secretaries - not IT pro's.

    And when I was real enterprise with Media Sets in the 1000's - never really had a problem with LTO1, 2 and 3. Feed the drive its cleaning cart every 50 inserts, get $vendor to do annual/bi-annual maintenance on the library and never worry about it.

    No?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  16. thetron

    thetron Member

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    Speculation says
     
  17. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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  18. thetron

    thetron Member

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    The biggest question if your daily incremental count towards it
     
  19. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    tbh the answer is "kinda".

    Really depends how you rotate your incremental scratch media. Still any software worth its salt will measure this.

    What are you using?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  20. bcann

    bcann Member

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    ahhhh my personal favourite.

    a file share with nothing other then the default ntfs security on it:
    underneath that there are about 30 or so subfolders, each with default security, the odd one with some actual security groups attached to it, but most of them with INDIVIDUAL names rather then a group. one particular folder has 250 user names attached to it ALL with the same permissions.........

    Now didn't they invent something to CONTAIN all these similar GROUPS of things together in.

    FFS

    oh and another beauty.

    Troubleshooting, its one of them skills, you either got it or you don't. take this example.

    we use VNC to remote into people's machines to do remote control and whatnot. so they've ran into an issue where if the user has 2 screens vnc for some reason always seems to connect to the second screen and we can only see one screen. previous IT teams solution, get the end user to disconnect there second screen and reboot the laptop.

    my solution, look at the god damn program and see if there is an option for dual screen and dual screen mirroring, and sure god damn enough there is, tick box, reconnect and golly freaking gee, both screens now visible.

    and another ripper:

    Experience, you can only get it doing this and that old cherry you can't put an old head on you shoulders etc.
    my boss who is older then me sets me up with setting up the new GM's and Senior Salespersons laptop. gets me to setup 17" luggables, I query him and say are you SURE they want a 17" laptop? he says yep. I spend all day as we don't have a proper WDS image as we use every piece of hardware on the planet, setup 2 * 17" laptops. 15 seconds from when I plugged them into their desks both say they want a smaller laptop.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015

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