Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.
What shits me is people management is easy and people still make a meal of it.
Request from some technology specialist:
Do it but use 127.0.0.1
Very bad assumption. If you think people management is easy then you're even more naive than a HR person thinking IT is easy.
It's not. If you've ever run through the Myers–Briggs personality types, you'll know that there are 16 distinct types of people. They all see the world differently and all have different needs.
Do you know what personality type you are? Do you know what all your managers are? Do you know what your colleagues are? Do you know what you need to do to provide the right information to each of these people?
If you've ever done any sort of management / leadership training then it'll open your eyes. The reason people "make a meal of it" is because it's not easy and most managers haven't been properly skilled.
The exact same thing would happen if you hire a sysadmin with no prior experience and put him in a senior role. He'll struggle.
team Leading programmers is like herding cats.
I have managed teams (technical ones) and i am constantly being pushed to manage teams again by my SLT, I have also done extensive (and very boring) management training.
I would suggest that the only people who find it easy are doing a bad job of it and don't realise that.
Or exceedingly lucky with their team and environment.
People management is fucking hard. Mostly because people are terrible creatures, full of emotion and feelings and other crap that gets in the way of doing good work. (I say this with no ignorance to the fact that I suffer the same problems, and am not a special case either).
The "herding cats" comment from before is accurate, except for the fact that it's not limited to programmers.
And again, I am not exempt. I've been a royal pain in the arse of my managers in the past, as I'm sure they were for theirs.
recently went from leading admin/devops to pure dev programmers and it is way worse then admin types.
It is not easy at all. I think this is a great example of the Dunning Kruger effect.
People have massively different likes, dislikes and personalities, if you think managing them is easy perhaps you should try becoming a high level manager. There is a reason the good ones get paid lots of money and that is because not many people are effective at it.
I agree that programmers are worse on the "fix it with duct tape and string" scale of things, where as well trained sysadmins (having spent years cleaning up the mess of shitty developers), tend to do things more sensibly at least some of the time.
With that said, there is still great variance there. Right now I'm desperately trying to get a handful of my team to move away from configuring things by IP, and use DNS. 90% of the team get it, and are on board. There's one or two who just can't escape old habits, and when config by DNS fail, don't even bother to troubleshoot to the next level to find out why and fix it, but fall back to the old ways.
It seems like a minor annoyance, but I've just spent 3 weeks over the Christmas break fixing a bunch of hard-coded legacy crap that has been holding back big parts of upgrades. The fact that I had to pull overtime over Christmas to do that, just so the business can grow as required in 2016, is highly annoying. To then have to try and fight the very team who have to face the pain of getting the upgrades done in a rigid environment that's not correctly configured is annoying, as by the time they realise why they need a more flexible setup, it'll be too late.
And why is this the case? Because personalities. Terrible, random, and wildly varied personalities. And I'm sure if I went and asked people in any other business department, they'd have the same sorts of stories.
If any of you guys think you have written bad bugs in your time, you should read this for lols
Remote code execution and remote stealing and decrypting of passwords if you use the trendmicro password manager. It is fixed now but was public and exploitable for at least 4 days.
Actually they only fixed the immediate cause of the RCE he identified. They left 70 odd api's directly exposed to the internet and asked the dude to test if it was an issue rather than realising that erm, perhaps that's actually a gaping security hole...
Indeed people are different but that doesn't make it hard and most people only find it hard due to applying black and white approaches/theory's/styles/blah to a gray scale environment.
If you as a manager learn each members strengths/weaknesses, who to micro or macro manage, who needs to be driven or who can drive, then its not a hard job.
I only stopped as i hated the other-side of the fence in dealing with the politics of a multinational and the sheer bullshit around doing some basic stuff like getting from approval to hire to getting a bum on seat, a 8+ month process around here.
Dunno if i have just had OK teams but i did get involved in the hiring of them and still do to this day.
this thread is glorious. I laughed myself to sleep last night.
Remember kids, AV is a rootkit that YOU install.
Azure Site Recovery.
Requires a configuration server at azure
Requires a replica server at azure
requires a process-server, on the physical site being protected
requires mobility-service on the host being protected
Apparently, noone at in-mage ever considered there might be a use-case where a customer has a single physical server, no VMs, that they want to protect use ASR.
Not only is it not possible to have process-srver and mobility server on th same host (ie, you can't protect the process-server) but they never even considered someone might want to do that, so don't say it anywhere.
I find it pretty easy to manage sysadmins and devops, especially the ones I've been involved in the hiring of (most of them).
Other than the usual competencies, I use one little weird trick to filter out the problematic ones: if they appear to be emotionally invested in some dogmatic X vs Y wars (e.g a guy we ran into recently was very anti-Ubuntu and loves his Centos) they will be hard to manage.
I have done similar courses, but don't let all the cool stuff complicate things for you. Regarding MBTI, if we're talking about sysadmins /devops, most of them (as in 99.9999% with the odd guy being one that should change career) are INTx.
The only truly hard part of being their manager is getting other people from outside the team to understand them / us. Internal team management is easy for me, I'm very hands off, hardly have to do anything once I've set them a direction and motivated them to do the tasks!
job applicants hate him.
you won't believe what happens nek minnut.
Politically, I'm anti-union. But I've always chuckled at the idea of what would happen to the global economy if I.T. workers unionised over night, and then immediately went on strike to ensure a 40 hour working week, adequate breaks, and proper overtime/time-in-lieu.
Goodbye human race as we know it.
Stop typecasting people and just get to know them.