Consolidated Business & Enterprise Computing Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by elvis, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. DumbparameciuM

    DumbparameciuM Member

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    Woe betide any C-level operator who thinks of IT in only an "over the wall" perspective. Especially when it's the CIO.

    That's all I'll say on the matter.

    Elvis - It is truely terrible that a person of your capabilities has had to suffer such fools.
     
  2. J.J.

    J.J. Member

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    Elvis, you are here in Perth ?

    Then you have seen the xcom adverts on TV. That is what's wrong with the industry (Not that I'm working in the industry). "You can get a job in IT and earn big dollars with 3 months training GUARANTEED!!!!"

    Mate of mine is a tech at one of Perth's prestigous schools (million dollar parents send their kids there) and from what he tells me they are a department that is expected to work with a small budget, with a FIXNOWDIXNOWFIXNOW attitude thrown at them. They are the department that is needed so very much, yet is very undervalued and over worked for the pay they get.
     
  3. Drunkmunky

    Drunkmunky Member

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    I definitely feel that IT knowledge is undervalued, I've been working on computers since I was eight years old all day every day pretty much to get to the level of knowledge I have now. I'm certainly not the most knowledgable by a long shot but I consider myself good for my age and limited experience.

    However not many people seem to appreciate the amount of learning (and constant learning of new things) that is involved in working in IT, the highest payed people I know in IT are in management and don't actually require any technical knowledge. I only know of one person in management who doesn't have a degree and I consider him better than his peers :thumbup:
     
  4. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    Many IT people don't appreciate that management is not a technical role - a good manager is there to handle people, not problems, and knows how to use the technical knowledge of the people they manage. Then you throw in things like handling funding, time management, dealing with other managers :Paranoid:
     
  5. GiantGuineaPig

    GiantGuineaPig Member

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    I agree with the pay comments....

    Why should I put in more than 40 hours a week when I'm earning $43k to be a sys admin, with a company not willing to spend any money training me after 4 years or pay me overtime?

    If you have a nice package, overtime paid or a GOOD salary to compensate for it, an agreed on call system where you get a certain amount of hours for any out of time work and so on, then fair enough.

    Compare it to some other industries such as Engineers, or flight crew where they start getting paid as soon as any extra time occurs, and HAVE to have a certain amount of time between shifts (not a 9-5 shift then getting called up 3 hours later, working for a few hours during the night then being expected to come back in at 9am the next day - or having to come in because there's stuff nobody else can/will do) and it's crap.

    Edit: especially since I can do less hours/work/effort doing desktop support for more $$$!
     
  6. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

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    i only have 4 words for you elvis, "i feel the pain"

    gone are the grandfathers of IT who build the framework that everything today operates on, i've only really met a couple of people who understand how a packet sniffer operates, let alone how many people still use 'sniffer pro' to this day or who have ever heard of 'net x-ray'.

    ahhh, gone are the days of professionalism, so many smacktard sales guys pushing products they claim to be experts in, but in actual fact they only understand the product from the product brief that ships with it, these people make outrageous claims the product is X times better then the nearest competitor, i'm sick of it, i truly am.

    i'm not afraid of keeping up, i'm not sitting in my late 90's pocket of technology, i'm moving with technology, but i have polished & sharpened axe for incompetent project managers and sales reps.
     
  7. Axe_2_gr1nd

    Axe_2_gr1nd Member

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    wow Epic thread!

    In my experience, 10 year's working the following roles: HD jocky, Onsite desktop support, 24/7 Jocky, Support specialist(reports and "any thing too technical for a team leader to handle", that was in the job description!), Remedy administrator and now BMC Remedy/process consultant.

    The biggest thing that drives me nuts is that it's seen as a "big bucks" industry and every tom dick & harry wants in. Even if they have no passion or understanding/technical back round. While some of this has been good, customer service has been raised by the fact that none techo's get the job for the customer service skills and so techo's have learnt to play nice.

    The problem is it has devalued the Techo, and all to often u end up with entire departments that have no or little technical knowledge. These either leads to total failure or to empire building(eg: when the techo leaves it all falls in a heap, as the rest of the department or team have nfi).

    The thing that is good and bad is the ITIL push, with the principal of equal stack holder ship between the Business and the IT department. The Business unit/department understands the costs/value of the IT area & service. and the IT department understands the impact/value of the service that it provides.

    That is a very long path to take though.

    Shameless plug: http://www.planwell.com.au/Consulting/

    enjoy
     
  8. shredder

    shredder Member

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    I think the ubiquity of technology in modern times has led to a situation where we have:

    *company directors and the like, determining IT policy and direction (they assume that because they know their way around their snazzy sanitised laptop in these exciting modern times, that they are somehow qualified to make large-scale decisions about IT - when of course they're not)

    *an influx of people heading into the IT industry due to opportunity (rather than natural tendency/interest), obviously leading to a large group of IT people who don't really give a toss about IT

    *a resultant devaluing of professional IT positions (and the accompanying "pay peanuts get monkeys" result)

    All in all, a vicious cycle inevitably bringing about a downward trend line in many aspects. And it's unlikely to improve, one would think based on the evidence.
     
  9. looktall

    looktall Working Class Doughnut

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  10. AusTerror

    AusTerror Member

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    Yep that has been my IT experience also....
     
  11. Axe_2_gr1nd

    Axe_2_gr1nd Member

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    lol, it's a small country is it not :D

    enjoy
     
  12. hdkhang

    hdkhang Member

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    Apologies upfront: I haven't read the entire thread, it all sounds interesting to get everyone's opinion so I'll hopefully find the time to go through it all.

    I think one of the key problems (again, sorry if this has already been beaten to death), is that people who have no passion/interest in an area decide to take a uni/tafe course to get "qualified" to work in that area. I placed quotation marks around the word qualified as it means very little, passing a test does not make you qualified, just makes you able to pass a test.

    Compare this to people who have been interested in computers/networking/coding/etc. from a young age, who engage themselves in forums such as these, who spend their spare time reading tech blogs/articles/etc.

    It's the same with most industries really, a family friend of mine was keen on Architecture, he spent his days sketching by hand or learning to use CAD software, reading magazines, getting inspiration when out and about and capturing them in photos to stick on his wall. This was from an early age (pre high-school). He was damned good, and now works as an Architect. Since the first grade I'd try to emulate his skills (he was 5 years older) and eventually learnt to sketch with correct perspective and shading etc. and later learnt CAD programs and 3D rendering packages... these were hobbies while I was looking for stuff to do on my PC instead of playing games (of course 3DStudio etc. were pirated - you can't expect a primary schooler to be able to afford the software!). I stopped when Windows broke compatibility with my pirated 3DStudio ehehe. Anyway, enough of the ranting - I've been through so many phases of hobbies that I can't even remember them all.

    I think the main thing is there aren't enough passionate kids around anymore. Not enough kids with hobbies that they stick to, kids are surrounded by an abundance of entertainment, they don't get bored as easily - they don't then decide to devote themselves to something of interest - none of their friends are doing so. This leads to teens choosing professions which they believe has better bang for the buck because they aren't passionate enough in another field to pursue it. The other side of this is that kids don't stay interested long enough in anything anymore, they live a fast paced life, they wan't more of everything and want it instantly... hard work, dedication, education aren't of much value, perfection (or the thought of it) is no longer sought, good enough will probably do. The rest of the time they are on IM/Facebook/Myspace/mobile phones/mp3 players etc.
     
  13. TrennaHowar

    TrennaHowar Member

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    Just to put my thoughts in perspective: I am basically brand new to the IT industry having just finished my IT degree and CCNA. I spent two yrs doing my CCNA because i wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. My degree is useless, didn't teach me anything and I got very bored. Now i am looking at getting my first proper It job and i have been blown away by what has been written here.
    Hey hey ease up on the CCNAs! :lol: I worked very very hard to get my CCNA, not that the test was that hard, but i put in alot of hours to make sure i knew how everything worked (theory and prac)
    You can't be serious! I read that and I was gobsmaked! They didn't know the difference between a straight through and crossover... That is just crazy. Here i was thinking that one day I wanted to be a CCIE because they must know their stuff and it would be really hard to get it. Damn wasn't i just proved wrong.
    Again... Are you serious? Can these people even turn a computer on. That is such an eye opener for me... i thought that most people knew what they were talking about in the IT industry... crazy times!
    Insannooo! (nods head). Crazy times huh.
    We are TOLD this at uni. There is this misguided view at uni these days that a degree is worth sooo much, having one and seeing first hand what i teaches it totally agree.
    This really sucks, as I did the academy (took a yr) and then did the exam, as i felt that if I got a job doing it i should at least know how to make it all work!
    I am finding this problem, everyone wants the best and wants experience but doesn't want to train people up. Makes it very hard to get a start, damn all i want is a job networking where I can have fun doing really geeky things... am i asking to much?

    Thank you, you have made me feel a bit better ;) Cvidler Your post was really good.

    Elvis, man your like an old skool super geek. I would love to know about all those things that you know about!! At my current job, no one is really interested in teaching the young kids how stuff really works, as we are just seem as fix it guys, all the sys admins guys have "to important" stuff to do. Really blows cause i would love to learn more! Oh well back to the certs i suppose.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  14. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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  15. mtw

    mtw Member

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    I have been going to uni doing a bachelor of information technology, and have realised that it just isn't for me (Could switch to computer science, but I think I want to change out of the field altogether). Reading that and the rant above has just furthered my reasoning for not wanting to go into this field.

    I'm unsure of what to go into though :( Considering dropping out of uni, as there is no point continuing a course that you do not intend to use. Just a waste of time and money.

    Any suggestions on what to do? :)
     
  16. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    TrennaHowar, seems you have the right attitude. If it's truly where you want to be in life, keep pushing (as you explained, by going above and beyond simply 'learning the test').

    You'll gain the 'gurus' respect one day; be it from helping at a critical time, or simply by always being useful, then you'll be set.
     
  17. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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  18. Shorty-

    Shorty- Member

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    I couldn't agree more

    I don't think I've -ever- wholeheartedly agreed with a post more than this one.
    I'm sick of dealing with people/managers who are completely fucking useless.

    The scary thing is, I'm only young as-well. Early 20s infact, but I too had a mentor who brought me out of my shell. Unfortunately it turns out he's one of the rare ones.
     
  19. FuzzyKaos

    FuzzyKaos Member

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    and now this post has brought you out of your overclockers.com.au shell

    Shorty-
    Member

    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1
     
  20. Daft_Munt

    Daft_Munt Member

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    Elvis I feel your pain. I had one or 2 mentors in my career and I am kicking myself for not having enough time to spend with them.

    HR/recruitment/managment is part of the problem. Certs and degrees dont mean much these days, all it shows is that you have the determination and intelligence to pass the course, which may not be applicable to the real world. I have had a manager that was technically great but not the best people person or mentor, happy until something went wrong resulting in dutch-courage abusive emails at 3am.

    Another problem is a lot of people at uni select a degree based partial on potential income and IT seems to be one. IT and IS teach a fuzzy sort of managment knowledge and limited tech and these people quite often end up as sysadmins. Also some IT folk some times need to be kept away from the client (as has been illustrated in this thread) as that have no idea how to interact. I remember one uni kid drop kicking a beach ball into clients at an xmas party and I pulled him aside. Shit his nix knowledge shat on mine and he stayed, never to see a client alone :D.

    One thing I believe though, as society advances we are also advancing in mediocrity, as popultaion grows so does mediocrity. Over specialisation is breeding in weakness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008

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