Consolidated Tax/ATO discussion thread

Discussion in 'Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Mining' started by whatdoesthisdo, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. whatdoesthisdo

    whatdoesthisdo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,565
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Please continue your tax related discussions here thanks.
     
  2. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    9,335
    Location:
    The Shire, Sydney
    wonder if this will take off ...
     
    whatdoesthisdo likes this.
  3. OP
    OP
    whatdoesthisdo

    whatdoesthisdo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,565
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Lol, time will tell.

    Well I'll get the ball rolling

    Didn't there use to be a law about not having to pay CGT when using the profits to reinvest in another investment? Or was that only for real estate or something? Could that be applied here if it does exist?
     
  4. FuzwaldQO

    FuzwaldQO Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Near Hobart...
  5. mixology

    mixology Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Sydney
    Also with the increased scrutiny by the government on cryptocurrency, keeping details about your trades is crucial especially so you can calculate your tax liabilities for the year.

    I have been using https://cointracking.info/ for maybe 3-4 weeks, and I would definitely recommend people (especially HODLers) to use it, it's free (up to 200 transactions for the free version), has a mobile app, and it automates a lot of the tasks of calculating your realised benefits, unrealised benefits, cost base, and tax liability.

    FYI not affiliated with the ATO or CoinTracking hahah.
     
  6. miicah

    miicah Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,749
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD
    So what's the deal if I don't remember how much I bought my BTC for? Or even if I originally bought LTC and converted?
     
  7. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    9,335
    Location:
    The Shire, Sydney
    not that i'm aware of, but that doesn't mean there wasn't/isn't some rules like that

    it's almost impossible to be 100% across every tax rule there is

    try harder ;)

    if you ended up depositing $100k+ into a bank account, the default position the ATO is likely to take is that the amount is 100% taxable unless you can prove you have cost base (purchase price)
     
  8. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    9,335
    Location:
    The Shire, Sydney
  9. pezzy

    pezzy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Sydney
    is there a website with a calculator that has historical coin/currency exchange figures? even better, precised to an exchange, time and date?
     
  10. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    10,860
    Location:
    Canberra
    Every exchange I've used has historical data available.
     
  11. pezzy

    pezzy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Sydney
    i meant a currency/coin rate converter where i can specifiy time and date, and perhaps to a specific exchange.

    edit: i could probably use coinmarketcap's graphs. i figured it'd be easier to add the time and date into a calculator, like what you can do on xe.com.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  12. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    10,860
    Location:
    Canberra
    you like pointing your mouse at a date/time and getting the price? every. exchange. ever.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. pezzy

    pezzy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Sydney
    so that, and add a list of prices of all the other coins/currency at that point of time and date. i know i can get these off the exchanges i'm on. what i'm after is an easier way of viewing the info without having to click around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  14. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    10,860
    Location:
    Canberra
    They all have APIs you can download the data from, then you can stick it in your own spreadsheet/database/shredder and do what you want with it.
     
  15. Potato_Cake

    Potato_Cake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    75
  16. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,500
    Just like a theory of unification, a good tax explanation is simple and concise. Here is a flow chart I made for determining the type of taxes owed (subject to Income, Capital Gains Tax or Business Tax)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Its pretty simple. Identify the tax type owed, then calculate the amount of tax owed. If income, tax is by bracket.

    If a Capital Gain has been made, take the original token value/quantity (converting the token value to AUD or to BTC for conversion to AUD) to determine a cost basis, for comparison against the token when you realise profit. Deduct Cost Basis = Taxable Profit.
     
  17. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,500
    Critically, you need to realise a profit in Australian Dollars to owe Taxes. This does not mean you circumvent taxes by trading from Token A to Token B but passing the taxes forward on your cost basis when you exchange tokens, working towards realising a profit (i.e. the total taxes stack, waiting for you to realise a profit, which you then pay the outstanding taxes on).

    Please do not let accountants complicate it. The ATO cannot force you to redeem a token to pay the taxes. What they can do however, is calculate the amount of tax owed and ask for it when you realise profit in Australian Dollars :)
     
  18. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,500
    Just a correction from a member on my FB group. Business and Company are not interchangable. If you are operating a company, 27.5% tax rate applies. Might be an idea to spend the $250 - $500 in paperwork to register a company in order to side step capital gains taxes, or significantly reduce them with a greater range of protections (Available to businesses/companies)
     
  19. dirkmirk

    dirkmirk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,770
    Location:
    Shoalhaven - Gods Country
    Whats the point of a company structure compared to 50% capital gains discount if you buy and hold for more than a year?

    Maximum tax rates of 20-25% CGT discount which sounds less than the company tax rate?

    edit, 33% CGT discount?
     
  20. Potato_Cake

    Potato_Cake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    75
    I would be wary posting Tax/Accounting advice unless your qualified.

    Tax rate for individuals is MTR for less than 12 months with a 50% discount if longer than 12 months. No idea where the 33% comes from, this is for Superfunds.
    Not all companies are entitled to the 27.5% corporate tax rate especially where you are not an active SBE or deriving passive income.
    Having an ABN does not automatically deem you to be running a 'Business' from the ATO perspective.
    $10,000 limit is not on profit it is on purchase cost and only if it is deemed to be a personal use asset (very limtted circumstances).
    Tax is not just on realised AUD but also on Crypto to crypto.
    There is a whole bunch of circumstances to be deemed as a 'Trader' and be taxed on 'Income' account.

    This is just on a brief glance of your post and haven't gone through it all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
    DarkStyle likes this.

Share This Page