Consolidated Tax/ATO discussion thread

Discussion in 'Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Mining' started by whatdoesthisdo, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. IncredibleBulk

    IncredibleBulk Member

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    My understanding (with zero to back it up really) is that they aren't going to track crypto wallets. So yeah... go ahead and pull out massive amounts if you wish. Spend it on lambo's and fancy stuff if you want....

    Just pray like hell that at some point in the future, you don't get audited. You will be asked to explain why the money for all that stuff came from and the burden of proof is entirely on you

    Look at cash in hand tradies... they get away with it for YEARS. And then they get a random audit and get slapped with a few hundred thousand in unpaid taxes
     
  2. hairy

    hairy Member

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    just saying wouldn't it be easy if someone had a dodgey bank account and transferred the fund to it without a trace ?
    or used the funds in a way that wasn't able to be traced by the ato ?
    for example bpay 20k worth of bills via lros.
    I'm sure it will get harder but there must be ways around this.
     
  3. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    as above, just because you don't get caught now, or in a couple of years time, doesn't mean the digital records all disappear and you can't get reamed later on!
     
  4. IncredibleBulk

    IncredibleBulk Member

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    What happens when they go after lros?

    Where the money came from may be untraceable but where its going is!

    Also... again IF you get audited one of the first questions they will ask is "there's no records in your bank account for bills or food" and ask for an explaination
     
  5. hairy

    hairy Member

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    so what are people doing or plans ?
    its probly not worth getting an abn for small time miners.
    I imagine it would be hard tracking every payment and every loss/gain.
    I want to hear how others are going about this and what they intend on doing.
    cant the ato only go back 7 years ?
     
  6. IncredibleBulk

    IncredibleBulk Member

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    One thing I find very telling is that while 85 to 90% of people are new to this, the experienced ones are suspiciously quiet when it comes to "how did you pay tax on this before" ;)

    At the rate I am going, I'm not really going to have much to worry about. All of my small investments are down haha

    In regards to tracking, there's plenty of apps that you can use to manually enter transactions details. Pretty sure there's some that even accept imports from the major exchanges so the work is done for you. The expectation is that you will track your trades, not that the ATO has to prove what you did
     
  7. hairy

    hairy Member

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    if I have an abn cant I claim my power and internet etc as a cost ?
    I might have to go and speak with my accountant and get his opinion.
     
  8. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    the ATO can go back as far as they want in cases of fraud or EVASION, which is exactly what most people in this thread are probably doing ;)
     
  9. hairy

    hairy Member

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    so should I wait a few years until I want out and then claim it once its deposited into my account as a lump sum and pay tax on that amount ?
    probably more expensive.
     
  10. mindgrenadius

    mindgrenadius Member

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    Would hedging against BTC in USDT or similar asset be a taxable event/realised gain in the eyes of the ATO?

    I've been holding for about 4 years with no intention of selling any (other than small amounts like $1-2K here and there for PC goodies and whatnot) for some time but I do want to play the bigger swings (~2-3 trades a year tops). I wanted to sell on the CME launch on Dec 18 because I figured that would be the top for a while and purely to rebuy BTC/alts around these prices, but I didn't expect it to get so high and don't want to even sell to rebuy as I don't want to pay nearly a year's salary of tax when I'm not actually even selling any for personal monetary gain yet. I don't have a problem (well, as much as anyone doesn't) paying tax on it when I finally cash big amounts out, but is there a way to hedge without it being a taxable event?
     
  11. r3s

    r3s Member

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    How would salary sacrificing into super work, would it be the lower 15% , this could be a way to minimise tax if you have a SMSF you could take the income from your existing coins and salary sacrifice the lot then reinvest into whatever you liked?
     
  12. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    the above are all getting way too specific, you should engage an accountant to properly assess your entire situation and give you some recommendations/advice that you can rely on

    it'll only cost you a few hundred bucks, and would be well worth it

    you just need to find an accountant that understands what you're talking about (there probably aren't that many at this point in time)
     
  13. mindgrenadius

    mindgrenadius Member

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    Understandable, though every accountant I've seen in the past few years hasn't got a clue, let alone kept up with the rulings :lol: figured someone in here might have encountered it by now.
     
  14. Potato_Cake

    Potato_Cake Member

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    Generally it relates to the underlying asset. So if you not a 'trader' and your Crypto is on capital account so will your hedging instrument.
     
  15. bob05

    bob05 Member

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    If you claim the money gained on crypto currencies as gambling, do taxes still apply?
     
  16. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    it is NOT gambling

    why is everyone so bullish about paying tax?

    would you rather have $100k in your pocket cos you made $200k, or nothing cos you never invested in the first place?

    wake up guys
     
  17. OP
    OP
    whatdoesthisdo

    whatdoesthisdo Member

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    Really, you have to ask? It's fucking BS that the government takes 30-50% fucking percent while massive multi-national corporations get away with paying less than 1%.
     
  18. hairy

    hairy Member

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    also most of the miners on here are not large scale so an average miner might only make a few grand per year so they wont want to part with the little profit they have made.
    as Kerry packer said: as a government you are doing a shit job of spending our tax dollars !
     
  19. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    in that case, the profits would only be taxed at your marginal rates which will be 0-47% (including medicare levy), with most people only paying max 39% tax (up to $180k income)
     
  20. Gunna

    Gunna Member

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    So I just spoke to the early engagement team of the ATO after I submitted a form in Jan, there will be updated information around April they said.

    At this stage though, the ATO is only interested in the NET annual profit in AUD for Crypto. Trading from one crypto to another is classified as disposing of the asset but it is also acquiring a new CGT asset for the same value so the net profit is $0. If you cash any out to AUD though CGT may apply. You do not need to report trades unless you get audited so keep records.
     

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