Crypto Investment Challenge

Discussion in 'Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Mining' started by GumbyNoTalent, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
    Please read the entire post for all the rules.
    Prizes (not confirmed but in discussion)

    DarkStyle has donated some Nano Ledgers
    https://forums.overclockers.com.au/posts/17774490/

    2018-01-12 (14:45)
    NB you will be allowed to join the competition after the start date, but restricted to the starting amounts, you will have until 31st Jan. Early birds can start trading 5pm AEST 2018-01-12

    Be sure to create a public shared folder with your trades, list exchange, rate and volume.
    Will post a template once I have time.

    2018-01-12 (09:00ish)
    By 5pm you need to register a wallet address for the following currencies with close to the following amounts, not overs, to participate. The wallet needs to be viewable by blockchain explorer of some type.

    NB Rule 3 has been modified, all you need to do is have a wallet of one of the above currencies with only the amount for the competition. If someone want to run chat then post as I dont have time.

    Good Luck

    2018-01-06
    Open for discussion until Friday 2018-01-12 17:00 AEST (Briz Vegas Time not that silly Mexican time)

    RULEZ (proposed)
    1. Start - Friday 2018-01-12 17:00 AEST
    2. Finish - Sunday 2018-04-01 17:00 AEST
    3. To be eligible to play you must be able to prove via blockchain transaction to address any 1 crypto AUD $20 at the value designated by www.btcmarkets.net at the time of completeion of the transfer. You can use any exchange, the value is at the completion of the transaction not the beginning. This is your $20 AUD starting balance. NB no transacting before start and after end times will be permitted, can't blame the blockchain you choose for being lazy.
    4. You must keep a ledger of all transactions (screen shot exchange in case exchange disappears and your wallet doesn't) and wallet addresses. I suggest a public google doc spreadsheet for viewing, create a new gmail account for the occasion username.ocau@gmail.com will do, or anything else you want. Send me the link and I will add it to this post. (someone with time can make a template)
    5. All currency must be converted back to $AUD by the finish datetime to be eligible, proff of conversion will be required.
    6. The winnar will be the person with the highest $AUD.
    7. Prizes have been offered, once confirmed will be published, no guarantees or legal obligations are implied or assumed, this is for fun and the title of "OCAU Crypto Guru".
    8. Judges, - TBA
    Thoughts?

    ORIGINAL ------------------------------------------------------
    1. Join BTCmarkets and buy $20 of any coin they have and show trans and date.
    2. Transfer to any exchange you want.
    3. Every transaction must be posted, only 1 currency is allowed for 100% of your investment, you can move currencies as often as you like but only 1 currency can be invested at a time, all transaction + date + blockchain info if available to be displayed as a audit trial.
    4. Cashout must be back at btcmarket.
    5. First on to $1000 or 1st April 2018 (yes April Fools Day) :)

    You can only win with a fully audit able trail.

    You will be crowned "OCAU Crypto Guru".
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 3:50 PM
  2. papillon

    papillon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Intresting challenge. Just out of curiosity do you work for BTCmarkets?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
    Nope can use another AUD exchange.
     
  4. dexx

    dexx Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,057
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    now where's my time machine or crystal ball? I got this! :)
     
  5. MonoJoker

    MonoJoker Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    Messages:
    2,391
    Location:
    An hour west of Brisvegas
    I have stupid questions:

    1. Since I can only buy a few diff currencies on BTCMarkets I assume you buy one of those there ($20 worth) then transfer to another exchange if you want to buy something BTC doesn't offer?

    2. Won't transaction/transfer fees wipe out more than the $20 investment if you do this?

    Not that I care but since I have 70 odd bux doing nothing at BTCM I'll have a go.

    Post the link in the gen discussion so we get more ppl involved :)
     
  6. NerfDude

    NerfDude Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    Victoria,Australia
    No blockchain trail will be available if you’re doing it all on an exchange ?
     
  7. OP
    OP
    GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
    You got an addfress in an exchange for BTC, go to https://blockchain.info/ and look at every transaction, including internal exchange transfers.
     
  8. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,489


    Lol ;)

    Format your post, formulate clear rules and nominate shredder, koss and yourself to judge the data.

    Meet these criteria and I'll reward first place with a nano ledger s with $5,000 AUD in the currency of your choice. Second place gets a ledger.

    :)
     
    ksyap, datfreak, ChiefBoss and 2 others like this.
  9. OP
    OP
    GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
    Thanks for the gesture have to ok with the admins first before we offer monetary reward even if it is crypto.
     
  10. ChiefBoss

    ChiefBoss Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Melbourne
    wowzer!!!!

    What a man!
     
  11. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,489
    A few things:

    1. It is not money in the eyes of the ATO (and the law), it is an asset. No taxes occur as a result of transfer between parties.

    2. Taxes are paid to the ATO when you exchange crypto for AUD. No taxes occur under $10,000 AUD per annum if cashing out.

    3. I'm not asking OCAU if I can. Other than OCAU being a medium like Reddit, they aren't actually a party to the dealings :)

    Koss and shredder have been active all year and are fairly regarded. Add the genesis of the competition resting with you, it'll be up to you to determine the criteria of success (dollars is good). Three judges is also helpful for breaking ties.
     
  12. MonoJoker

    MonoJoker Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    Messages:
    2,391
    Location:
    An hour west of Brisvegas
    Prizes! Now I'm really bummed that my poli deposit to btcm got reversed...

    Guess I better BPay a few bucks into them now.

    Hmmmm minimum is $500 that's a bit rich for me. I'll see what's lying around in other online wallets but I'm guessing the fees to send $20 worth of btc would be in the order of double that to get reasonable clearing times...
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  13. Myst

    Myst Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    That's an interesting tax perspective, a number of accountants have come out stating trading between crypto pairs generates a taxable event as it would be trading between shares.

    Although the scenario you mention above is not trading but more investing.

    They say, if you're actively trading you must account for tax each time you trade between pairs and set aside the profit / loss in AUD.

    Now, I know you would have a far better idea than these guys, can you dispel those claims for us? :D Sorry to hijack!
     
  14. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,317
    So...
    Swapping from one to another is not a CGT event like it would be in shares?

    Interesting. So a lucky and lazy person could theoretically just "shapeshift" their way to glory?

    Have you got the ATO ruling on this handy?
     
  15. DarkStyle

    DarkStyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,489
    ]

    There's little regulation with most cases going to private ruling in order to avoid establishing a precedent. Accountants are in the business, of being in business. They will see more work than is required. The literal truth is if you increased your initial investment to $2,000,000 in a year but realised 0 as Australian Dollars, you owe 0 taxes. Once you start converting your crypto to AUD, it becomes a few things. If trading is your primary means of income, your flow of capital into AUD is subject to income taxes. If investing, then here are a few scenarios, same $2,000,000 value:
    1. The lump sum #1 (50% Tax): Made it in under a year and want it all in AUD? 50% tax (they'll want your exchange records to verify you've traded your way to wins and aren't laundering money)
    2. The lump sum #2 (33% Tax): Made it and held the token more than a year? 33% tax (they'll want your address and transactions to confirm the asset has sit inert for 12 months 1 day).
    3. The Trickle (no Tax): Made it over a year but want to pay zero taxes? Keep it under $10,000 AUD per year.
    4. The Steady Siphon (variable): Read this.

    What you are asking is not simple and there are a lot of circumstances that go into figuring out your net position but you definitely should not be treating crypto-to-crypto as taxable events.
    I don't treat it as such. I believe the universal ruling is "profit unrealised". The ATO is responsible for the taxes on the profits I make after converting to Australian Dollars. They are not responsible for taxing me on tokens, whose value is entirely speculative ;)
     
  16. Myst

    Myst Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Thanks DS, really appreciate your knowledge!
     
  17. Optimus.

    Optimus. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Messages:
    6,211
    Alas the BTC Markets aspect puts me off!
     
  18. shredder

    shredder Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,651
    Location:
    Dec 27, 1991
    I'm happy to help adjudicate if required. Therefore I wouldn't officially take part (I'm not on Aussie exchanges anyway), but I would unofficially play along for fun. (thusly I can, like, totally lie if I royally screw it up, y'know)

    Perhaps the next step would be to compile, over the next ?one to two weeks?, a list of participants. Set a final date for getting on the list, and the trading may commence the following day.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
    Ok open to discussion on how to do this as super busy right now.

    Basics.
    1. $20 invest start
    2. Some ledger, tracking all trades so you can prove you actually did the trades at the prescribed times, not 20/20 hindsight.
    3. End goal $$$ or time frame.
    4. How to track who/what/where
    5. Adjudicate a winnar!

    GURU STATUS AWARDED.

    5. Stop working and draw BTC like an income, in a slow steady stream. (didn't read all of the link so it may already been said).
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  20. spootmonkey

    spootmonkey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    8,669
    Location:
    Brunswick Free State
    How does the ATO treat it?
     

Share This Page