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Cyberpunk 2077 - Witcher 2 devs

Discussion in 'PC Games' started by Philll, May 30, 2012.

  1. PureFire

    PureFire Member

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    Its your first playthrough. I would wager you didnt encounter half of the side quests nor had the time to choose different outcomes in each to then determine that it made no difference. Only after playing the game a number of times did I notice the alternate outcomes. There are many.

    For the main storyline, sure there are only a few things that are different depending on your choice, with the ending being multi pronged fork, but when you compare it to other RPGs like Skyrim etc your choices arent really meaningful when you clear the same almost identical cave, kill/save the same set of people and the guild you chose to be your profession determines your play style. Would you say Skyrim isnt an RPG?
     
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  2. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    Agree with most your points, but I still would have rated it higher.

    1) Ending is very cyberpunk. Cyberpunk was never about the technology, the corps, etc. It's a dystopia. It came out in the 1980s when Japan was a rising power, and the US - especially New York was falling to gangs and violence. It's a dystopia. The villain is the city, and the protagonist is always the victim. "The city always gets you in the end".
    2) Agree.
    3) Agree.
    4) Agree.
    5) I hadn't thought of that, but now I agree. First play through, I disliked that there was no faction reputation system. Apparently in one of the patches, they put 1/10th of it in. Kill too many gang members, and that gang attacks you on sight even if you aren't in a hostile area. Being able to choose who to align with, and whether you're a hero, an amoral merc, and have the world react to you in kind would have been nice.
    6) Not quite sure I agree with this one. I would have liked if more stores were open, and more homes had random/procedurally generated interiors (done at build time, not run time) to make it feel more interactable, but in the end, it didn't bother me that much.
    7) Same. No crashes, some humorous ones like the invisible car.

    Given it was a kind of ground breaker, and I've been long waiting for a decent near-future dystopia type game, I would have given it a 7-8 for me. It definitely could have been better, but I was still mostly impressed.
     
  3. Unframed

    Unframed Member

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    While I definitely would have loved some faction approval system and ways to align with certain gangs (especially if you could go through an initiation with Maelstrom that required you to get hardcore mods done). I don't think it makes or breaks how much of an RPG it is though.
     
  4. power

    power Member

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    it was much an RPG as TW3, and no one is debating that game was an RPG?

    if anything, it's "RPG Lite" because each game is heavily scripted.
     
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  5. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    I think the definitional difference is that an RPG, the character is you, and things happen to you. An extreme example is WoW. If you wanted to do nothing but pick flowers and craft potions, then that's still the game for you.

    On the other extreme, something like oh, hard to pick a good example. The original Doom? No choices to make, just kill everything to get to the next level, not even character building.

    In between is games like Mass Effect and CP2077 which is still extremely story driven, but the outcome is to some degree influenced by the player. In Mass Effect, I did feel your choices mattered somewhat. But CP2077... well, nothing you did saved the Perezes. Whether you helped or not, Josh gets crucified. There are some small meaningful choices like saving Takemura or not, but largely, the world can't be saved.

    Again, in those examples, it may well be the trope of "the city always gets you in the end", but at least for stuff like factions, it would have nice to be more aligned. Mox or Tygers? (You can't even shoot a Mox, and must kill a lot of Tygers for side quests). Walk past the guy assaulting his girlfriend, or beat/kill him. That kind of thing brings back a bit more RPG in an otherwise story driven game.
     
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  6. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Having some slightly different outcomes does not make it an RPG though, or even half an RPG. Is Bioshock an RPG? Is Papers please an RPG?

    CP2077 is more like Doom, kill everything and watch some awkward cutscenes.

    Maybe a better question is, how quickly could you mod doom to have the same pointless "RPG" elements slapped on, probably not that hard given how little it means anything in the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  7. cbwolf

    cbwolf Member

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    You're right actually.

    I guess there's a 'spectrum' of 'RPGness' in games. I'm an RPG fan, and I would put Cyberpunk around the mid-point for 'RPGness'. Has a little bit of customisation, your decisions have some small impact on the world around you and can lead to 1 of 3 potential endings. Nothing super meaningful (from my single playthrough) to make your character really yours and immerse yourself into the world. Still felt a bit 'on rails' to me though.

    In saying that, something like RDR2 (which for me, was one of the best games of all time) has probably around the same or even less level of 'RPGness', but for some reason just completely sucks you into the world where you feel a part of it (i.e. role play). At least it did for me.

    So maybe it's something other than those discrete tick-box features that makes a game a good 'RPG'?
     
  8. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    For me it just boils down to "Am I making a story [RPG], or am I being told a story [Story Based]". While there are a million shades of grey in between the two, and a thousand different mechanics that implement that feeling of "I'm making my own story", that's really the difference for me. There are of course some pre-requisites. You can't really have an RPG in a closed world, because you're following a scripted story line. But an open world by itself doesn't make it an RPG. I don't really feel there is a line that is crossed either that makes it one or the other.

    But to be honest, who cares? You either enjoyed the game, or you didn't. Maybe it would change your purchasing decision, but once you've bought it, it's a game.
     
  9. Unframed

    Unframed Member

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    That's completely fair.

    RDR2 I felt no more immersive than CP2077 for me but that could be a personal thing. I love dystopian future/cyberpunk worlds. Deus Ex reboots were also huge for me.

    I guess it might be more that good game and degree of RPG'ness are 2 different spectrums but you found both a bit lacking and attributed it accordingly.
     
  10. macktheknife

    macktheknife Member

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    CDPR stopped calling it an RPG and changed it to "action adventure".

    Almost nothing matters in 2077, the story plays the same until the Endingtron 3000.
     
  11. jjjc_93

    jjjc_93 Member

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    Definitely more of an action adventure game than a true RPG, you get to make some choices in smaller missions and foster relationships but in the broader scope of the game they don't really matter. It's really only an RPG in the sense that you can put yourself into V's shoes and experience the story as if you are him/her, this can be said for any story rich game however and I don't think anybody is rushing to call TLOU or GOW an rpg. They have RPG elements to them, but they are not really RPGs.

    I enjoyed it for the experience it was, I loved the universe and hope we get to see more. I am really trying to get into RDR2 right now as I want to get lost in another world but I'm struggling.
     
  12. power

    power Member

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    could not put this down until credits, such a great game. 9/10 from me!
     
  13. jjjc_93

    jjjc_93 Member

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    Your comments on it are what's making me stick it out haha. I generally enjoy Rockstar's work so I am sure it will click with me soon.
     
  14. rireland

    rireland Member

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    Best to take your time with rdr2 I found, may need to be in the mood for that pace but well worth it.
     
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  15. cbwolf

    cbwolf Member

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    I've played it through 3 times now, taking different approaches.

    It's actually surprising how much impact a different approach (i.e. being a bandit and killing everyone versus being a good guy) has on the world around you and how you're treated in it.

    Definitely take your time and don't rush. The side-quests, and random encounters, things you find are actually worth doing. The world is literally full of things to do, heaps of easter-egg type things, and you're really rewarded for exploring. It's an incredibly rich world. One of my favourite bits in the first third was tracking down a serial killer because I randomly came across a mutilated corpse and followed clues to his hideout :thumbup:
     
  16. DangerMaus

    DangerMaus Member

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    I believe there are 5 different endings one of which requires very specific steps to unlock.
    I agree that RDR2 sucks you into the world more. For me a lot of that was because of stuff like NPCs you've helped recognising you later on and the world changing over time. I was disappointed that CP2077 didn't have an impactful choice early/midgame that resulted in a world change you had to live with for the rest of the game.
     
  17. power

    power Member

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    If HLTB has taught me anything it's that most people barrel through a lot of games at full speed, or never finish them. I too found the city to be quite fun to explore.
     
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  18. Zabba

    Zabba Member

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    Have you considered Kingdom Come Deliverance?
     
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  19. jjjc_93

    jjjc_93 Member

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    I am not a huge fan of medieval settings or sword combat. I do have it wish listed though and will probably give it a go at some point.
     
  20. breno

    breno Member

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    This is what i'm really struggling with. I really love cyberpunk worlds, Deus Ex is my favourite franchise so naturally I was super excited for this from the teaser trailer but I've tried getting into it 3 times now and I never find myself wanting to go back to it. I'll keep trying though when I don't have other games to play that have sucked me in :p


    After recently getting into Kingdom Come, I think I might now appreciate the pace of RDR2 - I briefly played it a couple of years ago and as much as I enjoyed the world, I found it way too slow. But then again, I was in a different place then, my youngest kid is growing up now so am slowly gaining more time back for games hehehe
     

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