De-lidding questions, possible to run with no lid?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Hardware' started by v81, May 28, 2019.

  1. v81

    v81 Member

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    Hi all,

    Got a 6600K that gets toasty when i push it.
    Running a Kraken X61 AIO cooler and thinking the biggest issue is getting the heat from the die into the cooler.

    Back in the day lids didn't exist, this seems the optimum way to transfer heat.

    Do people still do this?

    Will the cooler still fit or will the die be below the retainer on the CPU socket?

    Is it a bad idea?

    Will probably de-lid either way, but the idea of going naked intrigues me.

    Also asking for a friend who has a big heavy air cooler who is looking to do the same, if running naked is possible is it more risky under a tower air cooler in a PC tower case?

    Replies will be interesting.. cheers.
     
  2. straiton

    straiton Member

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    i tried running my 4770k naked, but didn't like the fitting/refitting procedures.If Intel chips still had cpu pins and a solid mounting like AMD, mine would probably be running naked right now.
    Also IIRC, running naked with 1150, there was very little clearance between the chip and the surrounding frame on the motherboard, height wise.May not be a problem with commercial blocks, but was something i was aware of with my large home-made block.
    I think i only gained a few degrees benefit anyway.

    https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/silverstone-ft02-diy-watercool.1162100/

    The IHS, if you think about it, also provides structural support for the chip pads to contact the outer pins solidly. IIRC i think some Intel chips(maybe Skylake, not sure) had a too thin substrate board, so it wasn't recommended to run naked, as they flexxed too much

    I don't think i'd try it with a heavy air cooler
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  3. Virtuoso X

    Virtuoso X Member

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    I lapped and reapplied TIM on my 7700k, used black glue for the reseating and I dropped about 10-20 degrees (idle to load) on air.

    It took a while, and almost destroyed the chip a couple times
    But that's what we do lol
     
  4. aussie-revhead

    aussie-revhead Member

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    I'm running my 7820x naked, no worries at all, it used to be an improvised thing years ago but they sell supporting frames now to do as you seek. Google die-mate.

    :)
     
  5. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    Is there really that much extra to gain going naked over running with a re-thermal pasted IHS?

    Seems to be a lot more risk vs gain
     
  6. Mjollnir

    Mjollnir Member

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    Running with no lid was the norm lol.
     
  7. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    It can be worth doing, but I wouldn't do so without a die-mate or similar spacer. It's the best way to ensure proper and even tension on the pins. It carries risks of course, but if you are willing to accept risking damaging the socket or CPU, the benefits are measurable.

    Personally, I wouldn't do it. Delidding and relidding with liquid metal is almost idiot proof, and carries enormous gains without the significant risks. I'd recommend doing that instead, retaining the IHS.
     
  8. terroristone

    terroristone Member

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    been running mine without the heatspreader for a couple of years now, no issues. i use the ek parts and liquid metal. Considering i spent many years playing with cpu's without heatspreader back in the day its a non issue for me.

    T1
     
  9. headin2001

    headin2001 Member

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    Running a 6700k naked has a few problems to overcome.

    First, the socket has raised corner that prevent good contact. You have to shave them down carefully enough so you get contact and don't bend any pins in the process.

    Second, you need a delid frame, like a Bitspower one, or one of those cheap crap chinese ones that you see on ebay (not sure they even work). Simply mounting a cooler on there with the thin PCB wont give enough contact for it to work.

    Go with LM under the lid, it's the safest way, and you know it will just work after.

    Anything from after Haswell up to the latest 8700k/8086k you will have this issue. The 9xxx Refresh chips have a thicker PCB and less problems.
     
  10. terroristone

    terroristone Member

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    did a few posts get deleted here?
     
  11. OP
    OP
    v81

    v81 Member

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    Strange goings on here... i looked back on this a few times withing 48 hrs of posting and saw no replies, figured strange *shrugs*, left it for a bit and am now back to see plenty of contributions, but i got no notifications.... again *shrugs*

    Quotes trimmed to save a little space but retain a little context.

    A number of good points there. Also when thinking about it today i realised it's the IHS the retention mechanism actually rests against, though the AIO waterblock i have would hold it in socket well enough.
    Still for a variety of reasons i'm shying away from the idea of running naked, from what i read de-lidding and re-lidding yeilds good results anyway.

    Yes, that's what we do.

    RE Die Mate, searched and found this...
    https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43407/der8auer-skylake-x-direct-die-frame/
    looks great if a 1155 version was available.

    I totally agree.
    Back before lids were a thing it was fine, but messing with it would jeopardise proper socket retention etc..
    If something like the frame above was readily available it might sway me back to running lidless.
    I'm not afraid of a naked die, but certain precautions would be taken, foremost i'd be avoiding massive tower coolers.
    Fortunately i'm already running water, and it does indeed feel like the issue is getting the heat into the water.

    Those were the days, wish it was still a thing.

    A proper retention mech is desirable, in the absence of it, and with the great results obtained whilst keeping the IHS i'm inclined to agree.

    Liquid metal is ok on copper isnt it?
    Just not Alu?
    For those of use who dealt with naked dies as the standard 10-20+ years ago the IHS feels like an impediment.
    That said given i'm broke AF right now i don't want to take too many risks, so leaning toward re-lidding, but if i found something to retain the CPU in the socket properly i'd re-consider.

    Wasn't aware of the raised corner, thanks for mentioning that.
    Have access to a loaner de-lidding tool via my brother, not sure what make it is.
    Only expense would be the liquid metal itself.
    Looking at picking up conductonaught from PCCG, will that do the job?

    Not sure, looked in a few times within 48 hrs of posting, and then decided to come back today.
    Does something seem off?
     
    terroristone likes this.
  12. terroristone

    terroristone Member

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    I posted my video of me delidding an old 4770k and reataching the IHS.

    i used this for my 4790k without the IHS https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy-precisemount-add-on-naked-ivy

    heres my vid

     
  13. OP
    OP
    v81

    v81 Member

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    Thanks for the vid, every time i see it i see different takes on how it's done.
    Gives me plenty of ideas.
    I'd say the highlight of your video is the care in the application of the tim.
    I've heard the 6600K is more fragile and have read not to use the vice method on it, whilst others have had no issues.
    Given i have access to t tool it doesn't matter.
    Cheers.
     
    terroristone likes this.

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