Deleting files from HDD permanently

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by Tubby2, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. gromit

    gromit Member

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    Which is, of course, totally unremarkable. I don't think anybody here is denying you can recover deleted files, given the right circumstances.
     
  2. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    I have not claimed this to be "remarkable". I am telling the OP to be careful, because he is inquiring:

    Now, do you understand the point? ;) By the nature of his question I am pretty sure he is not aware how easy it is to recover "deleted" files.
     
  3. gromit

    gromit Member

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    Actually, you WERE claiming something remarkable, as you started your sequence of statements with:

    You were corrected, upon which you said that you should have rephrased what you said. What you then wrote was something wholey unremarkable, that no-one here has any doubt to being done. The OP himself obviously knows you can recover deleted files, as otherwise he wouldn't be asking about methods to defeat it.

    edi: Or, perhaps, I simply misunderstood what you meant by "rephrase".
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  4. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    Nope. I did not say or give the impression that I regard the fact that I could recover "deleted" data as remarkable, as you want to put it in my mouth. That's your imagination.


    I phrased my statement in a wrong way, and after this was pointed out and explained to me, I rephrased it, and said "thank you" to the person who explained it. What exactly is your point?

    Another one. I find your tone rather patronizing and not helpful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  5. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    How do you know that it was actually "overwritten"?
     
  6. gromit

    gromit Member

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    [stuff removed about Chainbolt, and that english may not be their first language]
    I had a bunch of rebuttal stuff here, but you know, I think we've derailed this enough. Feel free to post whatever you like, and I'll just ignore it all from here on unless you start getting a clue.

    Surely you must think it unlikely you've managed to do something that has defied all the professional data recovery places planet-wide?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  7. stalin

    stalin (Taking a Break)

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    Everytime a 'data recovery' thread comes up, you get agro, tell people they are stupid and, appear to 'storm off in a huff'.

    If people don't understand what your saying, its not because english is their 2nd/3rd/4th language, its because your not explaining it suitably for your audience.

    If im lecturing a class, and 2 in a group of 20 don't understand, is not the 2 peoples fault, its mine for not making it 'understandable' by all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  8. gromit

    gromit Member

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    Racist!? It says the person is from Tokyo, and they have mentioned that they should rephrase what they said. It wasn't rephrased, but entirely altered. I suggested they may not have English as their first language and suddenly I'm racist?

    As to "getting agro", I just don't like to see people come into a thread and just make stuff up, pushing it as the truth. Feel free to point me at places where this isn't the case, and I just went off the deep end without provocation.
    The reason I "storm off in a huff" is simply because I don't think people want to read it. When the thread deteriorates to a yelling match then why continue it? If someone wants to discuss data recovery without it being "I've done it, you can't tell me otherwise. And if you do, I'll change my story or post some other rubbish", I'm only too happy to oblige.
    Unfortunately this is rare.

    It is quite easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight, another thing entirely to actually post responses as the tale unfolds. I would be interested to learn where you think the communications breakdown occurred.
    I presumed that my audience, in a thread about deleting data, would actually know something about the topic or ask questions, instead of just chiming in with whatever sprang to mind.

    See, I wanted to avoid this thread going like this, but you had to jump in. I'm sure the OP thanks you for it.
     
  9. stalin

    stalin (Taking a Break)

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    I think previous history on this exact topic (or any other topic on the net) should show that people simply do not know, or are reliant upon the advice of others who don't, there is always a 'subject matter expert' - in this case you. I have seen many a post where this same ^^^ discussion occurs and results in the same/similar outcome, something has to change for the outcome to change.

    Your a common component to those threads (and rightly so), if you adjust your knowledge baseline, or change your method of delivery you will get the outcome you want, and educate people with your real life experiance within the field.

    PS I have removed the opening comment from my post, and retract the accusation, feel free to do the same - I have dealt with similar issues in the past and am sensitive to it.
     
  10. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    Dito, and if I may add, unless you learn how to express yourself in a more polite way without patronizing other posters. We are here to learn and inform.
     
  11. gromit

    gromit Member

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    Stalin, perhaps you are right. I've spent so may years posting about this topic, which is one of my very few areas of some expertise, that I've tired of walking people through it. This is counter-productive, as you say, but I'm getting old now, and everyone on the Internet is a damn kid that should stay off my lawn.
    Have I really told people they are stupid? Ignorance and stupidity are different things, and I thought I tried not to tell people they are idiots if they are simply uninformed. Then again, I may consider someone stupid if they stubbornly hold onto their belief in the face of all available evidence to the contrary, and make it clear they have done no research and show no interest in doing any.

    However, I'm now in a fantastic mood after winning a new HP 2133 mini notebook on the APC magazine web site.
    Due to this, I'm formally apologising to all and sundry in this thread, nay the forum at large, who I may have slighted or unfairly criticised due to their ignorance of the intricacies of data recovery.
    I promise to be more accepting in future, but note that this does not mean I will quietly sit back and let people spout utter nonsense that shows they have done no research whatsoever. I'm far too rude and opinionated for that, but I'll try and tone it down.
     
  12. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    Question: If I write zeros to the entire disk, would that delete any trace from previously stored data?
     
  13. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    You don't need any program for this. The basic utilities from the HDD manufacturers have all a function to write zeros to the entire disk.
     
  14. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    ROFL, "Shields up". I remember this. Was a story at OCAU at that time. :D It seems he has extended his scope.
     
  15. Assasinator_2

    Assasinator_2 (Banned or Deleted)

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    Swear all you like, you're still mistaken and/or lying.

    Yes, that's the entire point of 'zeroing' the drive. That's what's been said many times over already. It will remove all physical data from the drive, with no significant ability to recover it.
     
  16. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    Can you give evidence of this? I'm aware of companies spending millions of dollars on data recovery, but that was from damaged/destroyed drives (from the WTC, for example). The data hadn't been overwritten.

    If you could write data to a disk, erase it, write new data to the same disk, and then recover the original data then HDD manufacturers would be using it. This would essentially turn a 1TB drive into a 2TB drive, without needing any fancy heads or extra platters.
     
  17. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    The only problem with this is the time it takes, a 500GB HDD takes almost one night. Otherwise, every free-of-charge utility provided by the HDD manufacturers can do that.
     
  18. gromit

    gromit Member

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    Certainly. There is absolutely no reason to spend money on a tool to wipe your drives. DBAN is always highly recommended, as a free download.
    As to the time it takes, modern drives can operate at pretty decent speeds, so you should be able to average something like 2GB+/min, depending on how you have it connected and a few other things. If your 500GB drive is directly connected to a PC via IDE or SATA and takes longer than 8 hours at the extreme, something is wrong. That something could be a problem with the interface that is slowing things down, or it could be bad sectors on the disk.
    However, there are quite a few variables, so it isn't a hard and fast rule.
     
  19. Boxman

    Boxman Member

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    I am completely amazed that only one person has suggested using this. Short of physical destruction of the drive you won't find anything more effective than this tool. It's what I prep old drives with before onselling them. As said it calls upon a function built into all new hard drives since roughly 2001. You will require physical access to the machine to use it due to protections built into the motherboard's BIOS.

    If you are sufficiently worried about somone recovering important private data (financial records etc) , yet you cannot bring yourself to destroy a perfectly good HDD, then do not trust in OS (windows etc) methods of data erasure. It's as simple as that. In this software segment there is an alarming amount of malware. Do your homework and you'll probably fin the above tool one of the 'safest' options.
     
  20. gromit

    gromit Member

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    The problem is that a number of drives and motherboards actually block the SEU function calls, so it isn't a tool you can use in all situations. Unlike DBAN and the like, which work on anything.
     

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