Dell EMC Unity 450F vs 3Par 8200 vs Pure M20

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by cjzdj, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    We are looking to renew our storage soon, and we have narrowed down the the below 3 vendors and products. Hoping I can get your feedback and opinions on the below products, if you have any experience with them etc.

    Which one of these products would you pick. All the same capacity, and price. All disks will be SSD.

    Dell EMC Unity 450F

    HPE 3par 8200

    Pure M20R2

    Approx 70% read, 30% write. current heat maps showing a average 8KB write size and 128-256KB read.

    No VDI, mostly file, exchange and transactional DB.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  2. g00nster

    g00nster Member

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    If they're all identical pricing and RAW capacity I'll be comparing administration, licensing, features, support and resiliency

    Do you do any synchronous replication?
     
  3. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    I find it literally impossible to believe that you have simultaneously got both the best possible price, and that they are equal (or even within 5%).

    Are you typically a Dell shop? HP?
     
  4. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    I have a Pure //M for my main Flash array. Hopefully replacing everything else with more Pure. Nuff said.
     
  5. Soc

    Soc Member

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    No netapp? Too expensive?
     
  6. OP
    OP
    cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    Thanks for that, glad to hear your experience has been positive. At the moment Pure is the front runner for me.

    What is your workload like and how many VM's and what Model M array are you using?
    Assume you run exchange and or SQL... How do you create application consistent snapshots? It appears Pure storage snapshots are only crash consistent which is no good for exchange and SQL.

    Thanks for the help.
     
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    cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    To Expensive, heard some bad things, and just didn't appeal on their initial offering.
     
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    cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    We have Dell compute and cisco networking, currently Nimble storage. So not really a anything shop lol.

    Can't go into exact prices, but they are all +/- 10K - worked them all very hard lol
     
  9. Rickm

    Rickm Member

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    I can only speak for the Unity (I look after 12 450F's 1.2PB total - all connected via 16GB FC) their software has improved leaps and bounds since initial release, compression/deduplication is improving, we're seeing 50% reduction and the ability to have compression enabled SAN wide with no noticabile performance penalty , their cloud reporting solution CloudIQ is great - again that was terrible on release but has come along way - no complaints whatsoever here - would have been a different story 18 months ago.

    Also with the Unity - you can forget any administration knowledge you had for spinning disk - it just doesn't apply - we've thrown everything at a single storage pool and can't get above 1ms response times from the SAN from any VM's - No more specific raid groups for SQL, administration is cake.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  10. g00nster

    g00nster Member

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    I was going to throw HPE Nimble in before but since you've already got it running, any reason you're not looking at a HPE Nimble (i.e. Gen5)
     
  11. OP
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    cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    Running Nimble Hybrid - got horid performance. Their all flash couldn't come close to price due to the very restrictive configuration constraints around SSD Sizes and number of SSD's. They pushed us down the 3par avenue.
     
  12. OP
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    cjzdj

    cjzdj Member

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    Thanks for that feedback rick, very valuable. Same question to one of the guys above... How do you manage application consistent snapshots for things like exchange and SQL? When it comes to spinning up in DR, how do you know exchange DB's or SQL DB's are not corrupt? I love the ability to go back to a daily or weekly snapshot from a few weeks ago, and pull out a individual email using veeams exchange snapshot explorer, but all relys on the snapshot beeing application consistent.

    Currently Nimble plugs into vmware, when the Nimble creates a storage snapshot on our Exchange or SQL volumes, it connects through the vMware nimble plugin and creates a vmware snap or VSS Snap of the VM.
     
  13. g00nster

    g00nster Member

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    Happy to take this offline - I'm guessing you're on a low end model. We've got two CS500's (Gen3) and used to have a AF1000 but upgraded to a AF3000 (Gen4). We recently had the offer to buy a Gen5 as part of a EOFY deal but didn't. I could put you in touch with someone at HPE if you'd like to deal direct and not bother with re-sellers.

    We replicate at application layer and use SQL log shipping and Exchange DAG's - for other applications we use Veeam to perform the application snapshot and have it issue the snapshot + replicate command to the Nimble.
     
  14. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    Having used ontap and clustered ontap for years, I’d never go back to that convoluted mess after using the Pure.
     
  15. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

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    Netapp's SQL <-> toaster integration for consistent snapshots is fantastic, clone a snapshot to a new volume and the DB loads that restore point cleanly, no missing transactions.

    using clustered for years, not a fanboi, no kickbacks, was your deployment a fuck-up? interested not sarcastic.
     
  16. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    Have had mixed installs, some shit, some ok but unless you have a degree in netapp, you cannot pickup clustered and run with it sight unseen out of the box, no chance. Anyone could look at the Pure interface and work out what to do in a fraction of the time with maybe all the features of a netapp. Pure is not cheap though, neither is netapp but ontap can be a headache once you need to diagnose an issue. No fan boi either but I'm all for ease these days.
     
  17. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    Current workload on this one is mostly VDi with some high IO Server VM workloads too, roughly around 200 vm's give or take on an M20. No exchange, just SQL. Not utilising the snapshot feature as we use Veeam for that. Does Not break a sweat i'll be honest.
     
  18. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

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    Unfortunately I don't have the time to research it in detail, do you know if pure supports the functionality of live SVM migrations or cold block storage in AWS / Azure + tiered snapshots?
     
  19. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    I believe this is possible with Purity 5.0 so I’d say yes but personally can’t verify as I’m running an older Purity version. Their forums are quite active and Pure1 is a good resource too.
     
  20. Rickm

    Rickm Member

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    My pleasure - we use application aware SQL Processing in Veeam, it integrates with Storage Snapshots on the Unity so we can take backups @ 1.6GB sec bottlenecked by the FC- with no interruption to users - Response times might spike here to 5ms peak if it's a particularly busy day - but considering what's happening it's damn impressive.
     

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