Does fluoride really cause cancer?

Discussion in 'Science' started by ck_psy, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    This is like disproving god. You have staked your side and won't change unless something so massive as god appearing in your face occurs.

    Lets all go watch tv and forget about this thread, serves no purpose but to waste our time and make us angry.
     
  2. lennyc

    lennyc Member

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    A big white tablet containing 1 mg of fluoride would also contain 500 mg of filer, binder, lubricant, glidant, wetting agent, agent to break up the tablet. Any one of which could have caused your adverse reaction. Or something else you ate. Or you did get sick. Not likely due to the fluoride.

    Fluorine and chlorine are grouped together in the periodic table because they are chemically very similar. Both are found in tap water and are excreted by similar mechanisms. The tradey doesn't die of chloride or fluoride poisoning because his body is excreting both at a higher rate than the office worker. You can test this by licking them.
     
  3. Pyranite

    Pyranite Member

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    Surely if fluoride was a carcinogen you would see an increase of mouth and throat cancers?
     
  4. gregpolk

    gregpolk Member

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    Is it not the case that a lot of these nations that don't fluoridate don't do it because they have sufficiently high levels naturally to not need to add any artificially.

    Because of this, of course not all potable water should have fluoride added to it, because some already has plenty. Obviously those chinese water sources mentioned earlier that have such high levels as to actually cause fluoride overdose should not have additional fluoride added.

    Fluoride is of topical benefit, since it needs to be exposed to the enamel to do anything to it obviously. No one is denying this.
    From the ADA
    In your saliva, constant topical exposure versus brief topical exposure of brushing.

    Come on man, that's from the ADA. A pretty obvious first source to google if you want some information on teeth.

    So the studies aren't necessarily all based on bad science, but very bad interpretation of good science by biased individuals and cherry picking lines and studies to suit their already established opinion. Essentially your summary is based on very bad science, regardless of what the papers say.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  5. Sankari

    Sankari Member

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    Europe uses fluoride:

    (Source).
     
  6. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    in case there are still some morons out there
     
  7. meremortal

    meremortal Member

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    Fluoridating salt is entirely different to fluoridating water.
     
  8. meremortal

    meremortal Member

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    Your wording is yours and quite ironic when you think about it. I'm an athiest personally however I understand faith. I see many people with a very strong faith in "science".

    My faith in science was unshakeable in the past. In recent years it's been tested, broken and re-learned. I now prefer to research and ask critical questions and am open to examining alternative views especially from those with no financial benefit to the current "status quo". I very much support the scientific method. I'm very wary of $cience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  9. dmr

    dmr Member

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    I doubt fluoride does any harm except reduce teeth decay. In some rare cases, some people might be intolerant of it, similar to how millions of people will get immunization shots without issues, but a few will die...

    Fluoride is a carcinogen. We know that carcinogenic substances increase your chances of cancer. While it's probably a good idea to put fluoride into the water to benefit the community as a whole (just as how immunization shots benefit all), on an individual level, unless you never brush your teeth, why is there a need to drink fluoride water if you can easily avoid it with a cheap water filter? Yes, fluoride is harmless in tiny doses, I get that but our bodies are subjected to so many toxins on a daily basis, why not help the body out that tiny bit more by removing as many carcinogenic components in our lifestyles as possible? Especially if the effort vs reward is extremely small. Water filter $20... done.

    Smoking wasn't banned until the late 60's when medical experts found a clear link between cancer and smoking. The same decade, we landed a man on the moon. For the first time ever, a species was able to escape it's home planet, amazing achievement, lets pat ourselves on the back, but before we do that, why did we discover it so late? I mean we have been smoking for thousands of years, and we only discovered cigarettes were killing us when we landed on the moon?? what?? :wired:

    Wide spread water fluoridation has only been happening for the past 55 years, that's within ONE generation.. Back to the time when smarty pants Einstein discovered the secret to the universe "relatively" and was puffing on his cigar, the society in which he was apart of told him "it was safe". 55 years, dunno about you, but that's still within the one generation, I still feel like we're lab rats.

    One thing I know is that if fluoride has absolutely "ZERO" concerns, why have these countries removed it? Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Scotland, Sweden, Switzerland, and approximately 90% of both the United Kingdom and Spain.

    Note, they are all first world countries, with the best medical experts consulting to their government.

    Lastly, I would say that while fluoridation poses "probably" no health risks, when you drink tap water, you're putting your health in hands of your local water authority who are suppose to check the water configurations on a regular basis for fluoride levels are that acceptable, the tolerance levels set by authorities is usually "quite wide". One just needs to head over to this thread: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/195412 - Most of this dodgey brickwork is within tolerance levels acceptable by state building regulators... You just need to look at it, to see how wrong it is...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  10. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

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    Setting aside the extraordinary scientific fraud conducted by big-tobacco, I would propose that for quite a lot of those thousands of years humans simply didn't live long enough for tobacco related disease to come to the fore as a cause of death. Alternatively, we were too busy chewing on asbestos teethers, snorting radium powder & gargling mercury for syphilitic sore throats to really care.

    Interesting how "have never done it" gets counted as "removed it", plus how regions ceasing fluoridation counts for the whole country. Then there's the named countries who don't fluoridate because they have naturally fluoridated water (natural is safe right?) and almost all of that list is fabrication.

    Natural fluoridation (natural is safe right?) of ground water has been occurring since before there was life on this rock. Life didn't evolve by starting with ultrapure pristine H2O.
     
  11. dmr

    dmr Member

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    Yep, safe as drinking water from a lake and getting all sorts of microscopic bacteria living in your gut. :confused:
    We know that exposing kids to small amounts of germs make their immune stronger, so perhaps the government should look into this as well. e.g. putting bacteria/germs into the water we drink.
     
  12. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

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    That's what the all sorts of microscopic bacteria already living in your gut are for.
    BACTERIA WARS!
    Microscopic Max: the Gut Warrior.
     
  13. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    Kids who are still growing new teeth benefit massively from fluoride in the water, adults with fully grown teeth do not. Once you are an adults topical fluoride is all that you should really worry about.
     
  14. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    Tasmania - The first town to fluoridate the water supply in Australia was Beaconsfield, Tasmania in 1953. Although all public water supplies in Tasmania are fluoridated, approximately 15% of the residents do not have access to public water supplies.

    NSW - Approximately 95% of the population has access to fluoridated water (September 2011). Fluoridation commenced in New South Wales with Yass in 1956,with Sydney fluoridating in 1968.

    WA - Water fluoridation was introduced in Western Australia in Perth in 1968, and is regulated by the Fluoridation of Public Water Supplies Act 1966. As of 2012, around 92% of the population is provided with fluoridated water through a drinking water supply.An exception exists in the Busselton, Vasse and Wonnerup townsites (approximately 20,000 residents), where fluoride is not artificially added to the water because it has naturally occurring fluoride.

    SA - Water fluoridation commenced in Adelaide in 1971. There is no legal requirement to add fluoride to drinking water supplies. As of 2010, 90% of the state’s communities have access to reticulated water with appropriate levels of fluoride.

    NT - Fluoride has been added to public water supplies in Darwin (since 1972), Katherine, and Gove. Similarly to South Australia, there is no legal requirement to add fluoride to the Northern Territory's water supplies, but a position paper published in November 2010 strongly encourages water providers to add fluoride where possible. Supplies south of Elliott have naturally occurring fluoride at levels sufficient to provide an oral health benefit. Approximately 9% of the population of Northern Territory have naturally fluoridated water.As of 2012, 70% of the population in the Northern Territory has access to fluoridated water, and there are plans to extend access to more residents by 2015.

    Vic - Fluoride was first added to the drinking water for the Victorian town of Bacchus Marsh in 1962, with Melbourne beginning fluoridation in 1977.
    The towns of Portland, Nhill, Port Fairy, Barnawartha, and Kaniva have naturally occurring fluoride in their drinking water.In August 2012 approximately 90% of the Victorian population had access to fluoridated water.

    QLD is a bit more complicated, with various governments and councils changing their minds a few times, but in general, flouridation hasn't been common in QLD historically.


    SOURCE : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_Australia


    If flouride is a problem, we should all be dropping in the street by now, but lets not get facts get in the way of a good story.

    Apparently vaccination against disease is also lethal, according to some...
     
  15. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Not with the whole fluoride thing again.....*sigh*.
     
  16. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

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    Yep. Did you know if you get a 1T tank of the stuff and drop it on someone, they'll die!

    #THATSTUFFISDANGEROUS
     
  17. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    And they have put it in our drinking water! Oh shite!
     
  18. Walshy

    Walshy Member

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    I'm more worried about all that Dihydrogen Monoxide that's in our drinking water! I mean, it's literally full of it, and you never hear the government health department spruiking the benefits of that!

    On a more serious note...
    Actually, the Smallpox vaccine produced serious side effects in about one in a thousand people, with up to 1-in-20,000 experiencing life-threatening complications, and roughly 1 or 2 in a million dying from it.
    Which explains why they stopped vaccinating people for smallpox after it was eradicated in the late 70s.

    Still better than smallpox: 30% fatality rate, very infectious, often left survivors with disfiguring scars & serious health problems.
     
  19. Sankari

    Sankari Member

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    It's still fluoridation.

    No they're not.

    Not true.

    Smoking was banned in several German cities during the 18th Century, and comprehensively restricted by the Nazis in 1941.

    The link between smoking and lung cancer was originally proposed in 1912, and confirmed in the early 1930s. Studies in 1938, 1950, 1953, and 1954 replicated these findings. Even in the early 19th Century scientists recognised that smoking was unhealthy, and warned of its effects on the body.

    False.

    Because you know virtually nothing about science. 55 years of fluoridation with no problems = safe beyond all reasonable doubt (and even beyond unreasonable doubt).

    No, it's not within the one generation. Several generations have been born since the 50s: Boomers, X, Y, and now Z.

    Firstly, proof please? Secondly, most of these countries achieve fluoridation in other ways.

    Thirdly, fluoride has not been removed from 90% of the UK; that would be impossible since the UK never had 100% fluoridation in the first place. Fluoridation in the UK has never risen above 10%, partly because a number of areas already have a high level of naturally occurring fluoride in the water.

    I suggest you go here and start learning: Making Sense of Fluoride.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  20. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    Great post sankari
     

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