Dual AP Home Install (Apparent DHCP Issues)

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by ][ XpLoiT ][, May 27, 2016.

  1. ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    I have recently purchased 2, TP Link Archer C7 Routers for home.

    Both devices are working perfectly fine on their own, however when both devices are in the same network it has issues.

    I can confirm that i am running the latest firmware on my routers both of which are: 3.14.3 Build 150427 Rel.36706n

    The issue that i am experiencing is around DHCP and when connecting to the second Archer C7 (lets call it "Upstairs AP").

    My setup is:
    Cable modem in bridge mode, cabled to WAN port on "Downstairs AP"
    Connected to "Downstairs AP" i have cabled "Upstairs AP" and this is connected to one of the LAN ports.

    I have setup the same SSID on both access points and have separated the channels (36 and 149 both at 80mhz) - i am only running 5ghz

    "Downstairs AP" is the only Archer C7 that has DHCP enabled.
    "Downstairs AP" is 192.168.0.1
    "Upstairs AP" is 192.168.0.200

    if i turn off "Upstairs AP" my devices connect to "Downstairs AP" whilst getting an IP rather quickly (approximately 1 second).

    With "Upstairs AP" on, my devices connect to Upstairs AP, however take approximately 50seconds to get an IP.

    Below are the 2 logs from the router around DHCP issues:

    Upstairs AP:
    Index Time Type Level Log Content
    36 1st day 00:07:14 DHCP INFO DHCPC DHCP Service unavailable, recv no OFFER
    35 1st day 00:07:12 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    34 1st day 00:07:10 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    33 1st day 00:07:05 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    32 1st day 00:07:03 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    31 1st day 00:07:01 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    30 1st day 00:04:51 DHCP INFO DHCPC DHCP Service unavailable, recv no OFFER
    29 1st day 00:04:49 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    28 1st day 00:04:47 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    27 1st day 00:04:43 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    26 1st day 00:04:41 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    25 1st day 00:04:39 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    24 1st day 00:02:59 DHCP INFO DHCPC DHCP Service unavailable, recv no OFFER
    23 1st day 00:02:57 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    22 1st day 00:02:55 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    21 1st day 00:02:51 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    20 1st day 00:02:49 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    19 1st day 00:02:47 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    18 1st day 00:01:37 DHCP INFO DHCPC DHCP Service unavailable, recv no OFFER
    17 1st day 00:01:35 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    16 1st day 00:01:33 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    15 1st day 00:01:29 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    14 1st day 00:01:27 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    13 1st day 00:01:25 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    12 1st day 00:00:45 DHCP INFO DHCPC DHCP Service unavailable, recv no OFFER
    11 1st day 00:00:43 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    10 1st day 00:00:41 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 1
    9 1st day 00:00:37 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    8 1st day 00:00:35 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0
    7 1st day 00:00:33 DHCP INFO DHCPC Send DISCOVER with request ip 0 and unicast flag 0


    Downstairs AP
    165 May 27 17:51:36 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send ACK to 192.168.0.12
    164 May 27 17:51:36 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv REQUEST from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    163 May 27 17:42:12 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send ACK to 192.168.0.12
    162 May 27 17:42:12 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv REQUEST from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    161 May 27 17:42:04 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    160 May 27 17:42:04 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    159 May 27 17:41:55 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    158 May 27 17:41:55 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    157 May 27 17:41:47 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    156 May 27 17:41:47 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    155 May 27 17:41:38 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    154 May 27 17:41:38 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    153 May 27 17:41:29 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    152 May 27 17:41:29 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    151 May 27 17:41:24 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    150 May 27 17:41:24 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    149 May 27 17:41:21 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    148 May 27 17:41:21 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    147 May 27 17:41:20 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.12
    146 May 27 17:41:20 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    145 May 27 17:41:16 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send ACK to 192.168.0.12
    144 May 27 17:41:16 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv REQUEST from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    143 May 27 17:41:13 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send ACK to 192.168.0.12
    142 May 27 17:41:13 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv REQUEST from DC:37:14:C0:1C:3E
    141 May 27 17:38:21 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send ACK to 192.168.0.13
    140 May 27 17:38:21 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv REQUEST from B8:E8:56:3C:FF:44
    139 May 27 17:38:19 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.13
    138 May 27 17:38:19 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from B8:E8:56:3C:FF:44
    137 May 27 17:38:10 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Send OFFER with ip 192.168.0.13
    136 May 27 17:38:10 DHCP INFO DHCPS:Recv DISCOVER from B8:E8:56:3C:FF:44

    As mentioned, i can confirm that "Upstairs AP" does not have DHCP enabled and therefore should be forwarding DHCP requests to "Downstairs AP" It appears from the logs that "Downstairs AP" is receiving the request and sending an IP but "Upstairs AP" is having issues passing it on / confirming it with the client device.

    Any help - much appreciated :)

    ta
     
  2. Smokin Whale

    Smokin Whale Member

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    Interesting. It sounds like you're doing things mostly right. Are you sure there are no other DHCP devices on the network? One thing that tripped me up on a recent job was a VOIP box on a network that I was unaware of but was pumping out IPs on a different subnet. :tongue: I don't think it's the case for you though.

    The first thing I would do is set the Cable modem as 192.168.0.1, Downstairs AP as 192.168.0.2, and upstairs AP as 192.168.0.3. Then have your DHCP pool from 100-253. That's how I would do things personally, because IIRC the default pool for DHCP on TP-Link firmware is 192.168.0.100-200, which conflicts with the static IP you have already set to your upstairs AP. Since IPs are handed out randomly within the pool and not sequentially, this could an unwanted conflict.

    Few things that I would double check are disabled on your Upstairs AP:

    1. DHCP, obviously all IPs need to be handed out by the main router.
    2. Any sort of port forwarding or virtual server functions, such as UPNP, port triggering or DMZ. This is useless if a router is only being used as an access point.
    3. Any sort of bandwidth management or QOS. Most probably not needed on just an AP.
    4. Any sort of firewall (although saying that, it probably will have no effect, so this is probably optional)
    5. Disable WPS (it's a security flaw anyway)
    6. Anything else which is useless when using a router as an AP

    This is to eliminate any services that may interfere with devices trying to get an IP.

    Apart from that, just try power cycling everything and see what happens. If you STILL have trouble, double check that the connection between the two APs is rock solid. Try some other devices and do some ping tests, see if it drops packets or there is a slow response. Easy way to do this is to use a static IP on a device and run some ping tests to your other router. Also, whilst super unlikely, I'd double check the MAC addresses of the routers. They should be unique.

    If problems still continue, I'd be pretty stumped. I'd probably put it down to bugged firmware and perhaps try a third party firmware like Gargoyle.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
  3. darknebula

    darknebula Member

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    Changing upstairs IP Address should sort you out. Pretty sure the netgear reserves 192.168.0.200 for dlna
     
  4. knoted

    knoted Member

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    What happens when you plug your computer in to the upstairs AP via a cable?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    First off thanks for the detailed response - very helpful just to triple check everything. In answer to your questions
    1: All devices on the network are set for DHCP and there is no other DHCP server. I just have a mix of windows and osx machines with some ios devices too (nothing tricky). "dowstairs AP" is the only DHCP server enabled.

    2: On "Downstairs AP" i have left it as default as its the main router/nat/firewall so there is on that AP but "Upstairs AP" i have disabled all of those types of items as i want Downstairs AP to be the main device for routing and security (lulz tplink secure).

    3: Nope nothing like that configured anywhere.

    4: Nope thats all turned off on Upstairs AP but enabled on Downstairs AP.

    5: WPS is off anyway :)

    6: thats essentially my mandate when setting it up - its clearly able to do a whole lot more but i just want it to "be an ap" so anything around routing / security etc is off on Upstairs AP.

    Power cycled everything atleast a million times :) really starting to struggle with it :p ta for your help thus far though.

    Thanks for input, i have changed the DHCP Scope to .50-253 and have moved Upstairs AP to .2. Did a release / renew on all devices and they got from .50-> so that was all good.
    just a pointer though - its a TP Link not a netgear - if it makes any difference to your thoughts

    Well spotted, i only have 1 device with is ethernet connected (mac mini) so i went and connected it straight to the LAN ports on Upstairs AP and it got an IP very quickly.

    It appears that its a DHCP delay only over wireless?
     
  6. Smokin Whale

    Smokin Whale Member

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    That sounds bloody weird to me. What sort of Wi-Fi devices are you using? I'm using an Archer C2 (I know, mediatek is different to Atheros, but still) in a very similar AP-only configuration and it works flawlessly for me.

    The other thing I can think of is what do you have configured under "Default Gateway" and "DNS server" under DHCP settings? Now, I'm not actually sure if this sort of thing has any effect if DHCP is disabled, bit I always try to make sure that APs know to point to the DHCP server on the network if I can.

    Might be worth a shot if you currently have this left blank.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. darknebula

    darknebula Member

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    Was referring to the Telstra CG3100 ;)
     
  8. MrSnuffy

    MrSnuffy Member

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    The logs posted make it look like the time isn't set correctly on UpstrairsAP
     
  9. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    First step - is the router fully updated? Can you post a screenshot of the current reservation settings?

    Next step - time to Wireshark!

    Download a client here: https://www.wireshark.org/download.html

    Follow the install and run Wireshark

    Wireshark is a program that will show you the packets going through your network interface. What we want is to see is what is being sent and received when DHCP is happening on the upstairs AP.

    Run Wireshark and select your interface by double clicking and it'll start capturing.

    Open a command prompt and type ipconfig /release and ipconfig /renew. Once you have a new IP address (even if it takes a minute), go to Wireshark and hit the red stop button on the tool bar.

    In the filter box below the toolbar enter bootp and hit enter - you will have all the DHCP traffic captured during that period.

    What you should see is DHCP Discover, Offer, Request and ACK.

    Click on the DHCP Discover packet and in the bottom window look at the content of the packet. You should see your PC's MAC address on the second line after Src:

    Click on the DHCP Offer - the second line should be the MAC of your router, the third line should be the IP of your router. Expand the last line - Bootstrap Protocol (Offer) - in Bootp flags it will have "Your (client) IP address:" - this is the IP being offered by the router. What IP is being offered?

    Click on the DHCP Request - bottom window, "Bootstrap Protocol (Request)", "Option: (50) Requested IP Address:" - what IP address is here?
     
  10. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    Thanks - i have setup mine the same (but my ip is 0.1 for my router & dns).
    Its stumping me too - bloodying annoying actually lol :)

    noted ;) ta :)

    Correct, as a side point, the NTP service on "Upstairs AP" even when inputted in, doesnt believe it can reach the internet (eg can not ping any dns or public ip from the AP interface - has some ping utility in it). i have no doubt that the reason behind this is causing my issues too as it seems like its not forwarding packets correctly (for some stupid reason yet to find out), but i did notice this too. ta

    --------
    as for ewok's comments to wireshark - that is my next step but i thought i would put it out there incase i was doing something stupid, but i will give wireshark a go now and see what it can help pinpoint.
     
  11. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    [QUOTE=']as for ewok's comments to wireshark - that is my next step but i thought i would put it out there incase i was doing something stupid, but i will give wireshark a go now and see what it can help pinpoint.[/QUOTE]

    Consumer gear does weird stuff in an effort to be easier to use - Wireshark uncovers some of that.

    Just a few more things - both devices are connected using their "LAN" ports? If you check the advanced routing -> system routing table, does it have the correct gateway listed? (Should be same for both)

    If you go to diagnostics and ping the other AP, the gateway, and something on the internet (8.8.8.8), does it work for both AP?
     
  12. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    can confirm: here is screenshot of both:
    http://imgur.com/a/SaGx1

    As for wireshark - i have only had limited exposure to it, so let me tell you what i have done to confirm it should be what you are expecting.
    my macbook pro wireshark installed.
    macbook pro wifi connected to downstairs AP.
    (as per original post) Downstairs AP is DHCP server (192.168.0.1)
    any device getting IP by connected to Downstairs AP gets an IP no worries (eg when Upstairs AP is turned off).

    Upstairs AP is ethernet connected to Downstairs AP. Has static ip of 192.168.0.2.

    Here is screenshot of my iphone attempting to connect to "Upstairs AP" as you can see, it eventually got an IP. (very eventually).....

    http://imgur.com/sUGIZIn

    here is the bootp extract of the capture taken
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1053162/capture_dhcp.pcapng

    i will now do a similar test, but plug my macmini directly into Upstairs AP and see what the result is there (to confirm behaviour is same or different for wired vs wireless)
     
  13. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    Both AP's are connected using their LAN ports yes.

    Here is the System Route Screenshots of both AP's (downstairs AP is the top image)
    http://imgur.com/a/YL3zX

    pinging upstairs ap from downstairs ap diagnostic interface is all good:
    Pinging 192.168.0.2 with 64 bytes of data:

    Reply from 192.168.0.2: bytes=64 time=6 TTL=64 seq=1
    Reply from 192.168.0.2: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=2
    Reply from 192.168.0.2: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=3
    Reply from 192.168.0.2: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=4

    Ping statistics for 192.168.0.2
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milliseconds:
    Minimum = 1, Maximum = 6, Average = 2

    pinging downstairs ap from upstairs ap diagnotistic interface is also good:
    Pinging 192.168.0.1 with 64 bytes of data:

    Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=1
    Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=2
    Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=3
    Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=64 time=1 TTL=64 seq=4

    Ping statistics for 192.168.0.1
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milliseconds:
    Minimum = 1, Maximum = 1, Average = 1

    upstairs ap pinging google.com
    Ping request could not find host google.com. Please check the name and try again.

    downstairs ap pinging google.com
    Pinging google.com [216.58.199.78] with 64 bytes of data:

    Reply from 216.58.199.78: bytes=64 time=14 TTL=55 seq=1
    Reply from 216.58.199.78: bytes=64 time=24 TTL=55 seq=2
    Reply from 216.58.199.78: bytes=64 time=15 TTL=55 seq=3
    Reply from 216.58.199.78: bytes=64 time=13 TTL=55 seq=4

    Ping statistics for google.com
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milliseconds:
    Minimum = 13, Maximum = 24, Average = 16

    upstairs ap pinging google dns ip
    Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 64 bytes of data:

    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.

    Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
     
  14. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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  15. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    Not a big deal, but add a static route for the upstairs AP with the following:

    Destination 0.0.0.0
    Subnet 0.0.0.0
    Default GW 192.168.0.1

    This'll get NTP working at least...


    Do the above, and try this again.

    Fascinating, no Offer or ACK... Derp, you aren't capturing from the device asking for the address :p

    Can you do a quick capture of your own PC requesting an IP? For OSX just go to System Prefs, Network, select the adapter, advanced and hit Renew DHCP.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
  16. OP
    OP
    ][ XpLoiT ][

    ][ XpLoiT ][ Member

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    When adding a static route as per screenshot, i get an error when submitting it saying
    http://imgur.com/a/hrpB5

    attached is capture file
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1053162/own.pcapng
     
  17. Smokin Whale

    Smokin Whale Member

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    Erm, shouldn't this be within the DHCP settings? We're not crossing subnets or anything here, so I don't see why a static route is necessary.

    Edit: On a side note, I've noticed that some Apple devices don't want to play ball with some networks on a 40mhz 2.4Ghz band - 20mhz 2.4Ghz works better for them.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  18. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    The AP itself needs to know how to escape the subnet and get to other networks (internet) - that's what the default gateway is for. Usually you define the gateway or create a static route to 0.0.0.0 pointing to the gateway.

    This route is ignored for traffic on the same subnet as... it's the same subnet.

    The behaviour of the AP being to ping the same subnet but not the Internet shows it doesn't have a route out of the subnet. It's got nothing to do with the DHCP offer being slow, but it's something that's broken and should be fixed.

    Edit: quickly getting the feeling you need to dump the second C7 and get an actual access point that won't fuck around with everything and break things. Apparently the C7 won't allow you to enter a static route for an address matching the management range, and it's definitely messing with broadcasts so you are going to have issues with things other than DHCP like bonjour or mDNS used for detection of devices like Chromecast.

    If you want to try something different, try connecting the upstairs AP with it's WAN port. Leave DHCP disabled. Set a static IP on the WAN page with the same details you have now (192.168.1.2 / 255.255.255.0 / GW: 192.168.1.1). I don't think DHCP will work across the WAN port, but who knows. You'll need to also disable the firewall, NAT, and all of the ALG helper junk too.

    The other option is to just run the second AP on a different subnet.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  19. AEKaBeer

    AEKaBeer Member

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    Sounds like you haven't got the modem in bridge mode and might be running 2 NAT tables, one off the netgeat and the other off the c7 with dhcp enabled.

    Also make sure the other c7 is on AP mode and not router mode.
     
  20. Smokin Whale

    Smokin Whale Member

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    Exactly why I don't think a static route is necessary. The AP should be bridged to the internal switch. Assuming you are on the same subnet, it should be smart enough to broadcast, find the gateway, and direct DHCP requests there. I like to define it within DHCP settings to speed up this process, but yeah.

    Yikes that sounds messy. I also think there's something up with the firmware. Double NATing, or what not. I'd just flash Gargoyle and be done with it.

    http://www.gargoyle-router.com/

    On a side note, did you ever try setting a static IP on a Wi-Fi client connected to your upstairs AP and see what happens?
     

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