EPIA MII vs. PD

Discussion in 'Other CPUs and chipsets' started by OCMunkee, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Hey Via people, I need some help...

    I've seen that gamedude has the EPIA PD-10000 for $245, and the MII-6000E for $269.
    I'm wondering is it worth the extra money and a slower processor to get the PCMCIA? Is there a way to put PCMCIA and/or CF on the EPIA PD?

    The main reason I'm asking is that gamedude told me they can't get the MII-10000 or 12000, but I really want a faster processor model. (The faster MII's at AusPCMarket are probably out of my budget.)

    Does the PD have the FPU built-in to the processor or only the MIIs? If not, how much would performance really suffer?

    Cheers,
    --Nathan
     
  2. Nephilim

    Nephilim Member

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    How about the standard M-10000 model? I think they are around the $250. What do you need the CF for?
     
  3. bYrd

    bYrd Member

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    The M and MII boards are pretty much exactly the same, apart from CF slots. In fact, some reviews have shown the M10000 to be as fast if not faster than the MII12000 mobo.

    I'd just go the M10000, it can be overclocked to at least 1.2 - 1.33Ghz, unless you need CF slots which I'd doubt for normal use.

    JB
     
  4. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    It was more the PCMCIA I was after. As the case it'll be in will probably only have 1 PCI slot, but I want to use a PCI card and give it wireless (I have an 802.11b PCMCIA card already).
    So I was hoping it was possible to hookup PCMCIA to one of the non-MII boards.
    --Nathan
     
  5. bYrd

    bYrd Member

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    Why not get an external USB wireless device - just that the M10K is cheaper, and pretty much the same board as the MII 12000.

    JB
     
  6. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    That, my friend.. is a good point. :D
     
  7. stmok

    stmok Member

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    (1)
    Depends on what you're gonna do and what OS you use. What's the setup gonna be used for? You have to give more specifics, we can't read your mind! :)

    (2)
    Why not just get a dual slot PCI riser? This is an adapter that allows you to use 2 PCI slots to a one PCI slot mobo.

    Example, you can stick in a PCI capture card and a PCI DVD decoder card onto the EPIA mobo, which has 1 PCI slot.

    So you can use one of these
    => http://www.expansys.com.au/product.asp?code=PCD-RP-101CE

    ...And have 1 PCI slot left.

    Just look in mini-itx.com's online store to see what's available.
    => http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8#p1902
    (There is one case that supports dual slot PCI-riser).

    To have least issues, get the active PCI riser.
    (These are the ones that have the PCI bridge chip, that generate the required IRQ signals.)

    Here's an explanation
    http://www.tmc-uk.com/supports/general_faqs/riser_card.htm
    And yes, you can use a triple slot active PCI riser on EPIA, but you need a case that supports 3 slots, OR just make your own case. :)
    (I've seen someone on the web test triple slot PCI risers, they used 3 PCI cards to make a point that it works...It worked fine with Linux...The only problem is finding one of these PCI risers here in Australia!).


    Otherwise, just get the MII-series.


    (3) and (4)
    I don't know what you're talking about here, but with the exception of the early M-series, all current EPIA mobos that use 1Ghz CPU are the same!

    ie : Both MII10000 and PD10000 use the same "Nehemiah" CPU.

    The MII12000 is just the same CPU again (its a slighlty newer core), at 1.2Ghz. (This has "PadLock Advanced Cryptography Engine" as the new addition compared to 1Ghz models).

    BUT the gain in real system performance is very little.

    All "Nehemiah" operate with a full speed FPU.

    FPU performance is poor compared to equivalently clocked Intel P6-class CPU.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Probably a dual-boot system, Win2K & Debian Linux
    No games, I'll have a p4/a64 (or P-M if I can get the money together and the V2 DFI mobos are selling here or I get an IBM laptop with the FireGL card:p) machine for that. Probably just a small PC for browsing, email, dowloading and music/video box. The usual stuff.

    This is what I was originally going to do, but the case I want only has 1 expansions slot.
    I understood the whole thing about active/passive PCIs & multiple-PCI risers (but thanks anyways, some useful links there :p), but basically I'm going for a tiny computer, as I need basically all my desk space for work.

    I was considering the MII-series because I already have an 802.11b PCMCIA, (I have a PCI 802.11g as well, but I wanted the PCI slot for other use). But considering the prices of USB w/less cards these days, its probably better to get the M/PD series and do that. (Can USB ones have external antennae plugged in? As the reception where it's going is horrible without one)

    I read it somewhere, I guess it must have been some bigger difference between the -original- EPIAs and the newer Nehemiah cores. I wasn't really sure what I was talking about either, but I remembered the MII-series being promoted as significantly better for multimedia or something *shrugs* Who trusts adverisements anyway? :p

    Thanks for your help, I'll probably get the M10K or PD10K and build a tiny case for it, maybe I'll end up giving it 2 or 3 PCIs anyway.. We'll see. :D

    Cheers,
    --Nathan
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  9. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    I noticed M-series has 6 channel sound. PD-series has 2 LAN...
    I think go PD-10K, 2 LAN, even if it only has stereo audio. The difference between a PCI LAN and onboard is basically nothing (right?) but putting in a nice PCI soundcard will be damn nice.
    I.e.
    /me will probably buy:
    ~EPIA PD-10000~
    ~512mb/1GB Kingmax Tiny-BGA~
    ~2/3x ACTIVE PCI Riser card
    ~Audigy2 Value or similar surround sound PCI card~
    ~Pioneer/Panasonic Slot-load Slim DVDRW~

    I'll build my own case, as I planned to do that from the start. The slot-load DVD was the first thing I decided on, and I want only one drive, and slim, so decision made there.

    What about the sound-card? Good choice (I'm a n00b with audio cards, so don't need the -really- expensive ones)?

    I'll be putting in my WD 160GB/8mb/ATA Harddrive, and 802.11g PCI card.

    ::EDIT:: spelling
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  10. stmok

    stmok Member

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    Yeah, that should be alright. I use the same mobo and RAM (512MB).
    Sound Blaster sound cards are well supported in both Windows and Linux, so that shouldn't be a problem. (Sometimes its best to use popular brands for better driver support if you use multiple OSs).

    The only major issue you may encounter is the Linux drivers. (Thanks to the complete lack of recent Linux drivers from VIA). You have to rely on open-source drivers. Head over to the Unichrome Project and EpiaWiki.org and ask for help/read some guides.

    Note : Don't be too confused as there is more than one way to get MPEG2 Acceleration (from the CLE266 chipset) and OpenGL support (on the Unichrome video) on Linux.

    The is no problem with Windows drivers, they don't need to be fiddled around, they will work straight off the bat.

    Now go buy the gear and build! ;)

    PS : This is my setup I built.
    => http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=345668

    We EPIA users are few...But we do love the smaller size!
    (My setup is like 1/3 in thickness, 60% length, and 80% height of a typical midtower case.)
     
  11. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Could you do me a favour?
    I need to know the heights of the different heatsinks on the EPIA motherboard, as I'm trying to design my case. :p
    Also, does yours run fine with the 60W power adapter? As I'm looking for an AC/DC adapter, the best I can find is an IBM 72W, and the DC-DC I'll have to buy somewhere, any ideas?
    Cheers,
    --Nathan

    ::EDIT::
    Found This Product
    http://www.morex.com.tw/80dcpower_car.htm
    Here: http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_...roduct_code]=CA-MOAC047&input[category_id]=96

    ::EDIT::
    AC-DC & DC-DC 80W $109
    http://www.nintek.com.au/x/scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=1239
    ...or is it the 60W DC-DC board?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  12. stmok

    stmok Member

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    (1) Just download the "Operating Guide" of the PD10000 at viaembedded.com, it has the technical measurements to everything! ;)

    There's two PDFs for this mobo, one is the User Guide, and the other is the Operating Guide with all the measurements and thermal/Operating characteristics of the PD-series of mobos. Please download both!

    (2) Yeah, 60W is fine on my setup. Depending on how much you're gonna load it up, its better to get a 72W or 80W PSU if you use something like a PCI video card, desktop HDD and desktop optical drive.

    (3) Looks like a typo. Email them and ask to get a confirmation on specs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  13. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Excellent, going there now.. Done. Will check those out.

    With the setup I've got, what do you think? Epia-PD/Slimline-optical/3.5" HDD/2xPCI-cards

    Shall do, seems like a good price for it if its the 80W board.
    ::EDIT:: emailed them, probably won't get a reply till monday

    Cheers,
    --Nathan
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  14. stmok

    stmok Member

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    Hmmm, tough call...The slimline optical drive consumes very little, but there will be 2 PCI cards there...

    Go here => http://www.epiacenter.com/
    There's a power simulator (left hand side of the page) to give you an idea.

    (Select CL-series, as that's what the PD-series is. But it doesn't calculate the consumption of the PCI cards you'll use! Without the PCI cards, a 60W will work without issue, but with...I just don't know, sorry.)

    To be on the safe side, I would go for the 80W one.

    (It won't affect efficiency compared to 60W, it just that, a 80W offers more flexibility if you use PCI riser with 2 slots, which may or may not consume alot of juice, depending on the PCI cards you use).
     
  15. stmok

    stmok Member

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    I also must add...There is a Linux distro called EpiOS being developed.

    Its an EPIA optimised distro based on Gentoo (which has its roots from Debian). Its targeted for desktop users.

    Screenshots of an early test version can be found here...
    http://www.epios.net/viewtopic.php?t=18
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  16. yujen

    yujen Member

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    You might want to have a look at this PSU:

    http://www.mgpower.com/NPNDetail.asp?mdname=MPI-806H

    I use it to power all the way to Tualatin systems... thats Eden/C3/Pentium-M/Tualatin (1.2Ghz Celeron flavour).

    The advantage of that one is, you don't have any external power brick to deal with although it is slightly wider than the Morex DC->DC converter but shorter.

    60W is more than enough for your system.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  17. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Nice link there, somewhat reminiscent of Knoppix. Looks pretty good, I'll have to give that a go when I've built my miniPC :p.
    I'm guessing it probably comes with Via drivers etc. all packaged?
     
  18. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Hmm, looks pretty nice. I'm probably going to go the 80W instead. If I can get it for the $110 I saw it for. Anyway, do you know where I could get one of those MGPower ones if I wanted to? I have no idea where to look. The morex ones are relatively easy to find.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Got a reply today, they said that it was just a mess-up and thanks for the note. So I'll probably be getting one of them (at $109, not bad :D)
    Cheers,
    --Nathan
     
  20. OP
    OP
    OCMunkee

    OCMunkee Member

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    Where the hell can I get 2slot PCI risers from?! :upset:
    ::EDIT:: ^ ACTIVE
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2005

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