Epic Games Vs Steam - A Battle Worth Watching

Discussion in 'PC Games' started by boneburner, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. argent

    argent Member

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    Good win for other most other developers and consumers, relatively minor disruption to Apple as I suspect Apple already knew the writing was on the wall and was experimenting via 'reader' apps in recent months and was already in the process of pivoting.

    No matter how I read it, it's a major loss for Epic on just about all counts.
     
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  2. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Its a great result.

    I wonder if this means that an app developer can decide to only go through a 3rd party? I doubt Apple would allow a free app to do this long term, they will probably think of something.

    Compared to Steam the app store has very little overhead, however bandwidth still costs money.
     
  3. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

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    In what way, i can't get my head around it.
     
  4. Smegenstein

    Smegenstein Member

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    Bad for epic: They have to pay a bunch of money to apple because they breached their contract.
    Good for everyone else: Going forward apple must allow app devs to offer in-app payment methods beyond what apple offer (so basically going forward Epic could do what they were doing).
     
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  5. Sphinx

    Sphinx Member

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    Basically the court ruled that Epic still broke the appstore agreement with Apple by operating their own marketplace inside Fortnite before they got banned, and needs to pay them back their marketplace fees lost, and Apple are legally allowed to keep Fortnite banned from their appstore as long as they want.

    What it did rule though, is that apps that use their own marketplace should be allowed to operate on iOS from now on.
     
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  6. argent

    argent Member

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    I presume you mean in what way is it a big loss for Epic?

    Epic ultimately wanted a few major things from the lawsuit in order to 'free Fortnite'.

    The main one was the ability to add their own third party APP STORE within iOS - this is why they went the route of trying to get Apple declared as a monopoly and sic the anti-trust hellhounds on them and win that way. It didn't work - Apple was not a monopoly in the relevant market as defined by the judge. Epic tried to get their definition in but was waaaay too broad and similarly Apple's own was too narrow. Now, Epic have been ordered to pay the royalties owed to Apple prior to their flagrant break of contract which saw Fortnite kicked off iOS. This is peanuts in the grand scheme of things honestly but because of the way it's been ruled, Apple are free to keep Fortnite off iOS and they do not have to let Epic get back on Apple's metaphoric train.

    As it stands, Apple can no longer assert that you cannot provide a third party PAYMENT option via a link as that was seen as anti-competitive.
     
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  7. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

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  8. Hookimus

    Hookimus Member

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    It's realistically neutral for everyone except for Apple.
    Apple can't force you to use them to make purchases, but they still get their cut so at least from where I sit, it would be a negative to not use Apple for payment processing because otherwise you'd have to cover the processing fee for a different service + pay apple's cut and also you'd have to put in place auditable processes around what money you've made and what amount Apple gets, further increasing your overhead.
    Or would there be a way to implement your own payment processor but still come out ahead considering Apple still gets their % of the cut that's stipulated in the contract?
     
  9. Hookimus

    Hookimus Member

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    The one win out of this for everyone is in the process of this, I believe that Apple did lower the % it takes from 30% to 15% so that is a win :D
     
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  10. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

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    I would think anticompetitive behaviour would be more specific, and easier to display, than anything else.
     
  11. argent

    argent Member

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    Sometimes not so cut and dry.

    One person's intepretation can differ from another. I personally don't see (in this context anyway) Apple as anti competitive as I can see a number of flow on effects that benefit the consumer with this walled garden approach and some of the requirements is simply what needs to be done in order for the walled garden to maintain it's integrity.

    Apple only have to stop forcing all payments to go via their payment platform and allow third party payment options in the form of a link or metabutton. However, given that a fair bulk of people CHOOSE to be in the walled garden and specifically choose Apple because of the top-bottom approach where they can curate all aspects of their payments via a single interface, having to go offsite to manage your payments to a particular app, is going to be annoying at best and at worse, the customer stops being one. Couple this with the fact that we more IT savvy people teach our less savvy relatives and friends NOT to click on links to go off-site especially when having to enter in credit cards and credentials... and you can see what I mean.
     
  12. argent

    argent Member

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    Updated reading of results: It's entirely possible that Apple can now kick Epic completely off iOS (including their Unreal Engine dev accounts) because Apple apparently were only prohibited from kicking them off until after the trial results. There is no wording that shields Epic from this action as they have already been found to have flagrantly breaching their contract with Apple.

    This would be pretty much be a nuke being dropped on Epic...
     
  13. neRok

    neRok Member

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    Yer now that the dust has settled, it seems nothing went right for Epic. However, if Apple do ban the UE dev accounts, that will probably do them more harm than good. It will mean their devices appear inferior for gaming (not as many game options), and it will also make their devices appear inferior for certain business cases. Already it seems Apple are struggling to retain professionals PC users (anecdotal based on articles/comments I've read), although they may not care (already seem to be focussing on mobile instead).
     
  14. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Being in Apple's walled gardens means anything that comes up, especially that you request, they will be happy to pay for and won't even consider security. Sure you'll have to select Paypal or credit card instead of charging it to their apple account but I don't think this will significantly effect sales, they've already been brainwashed into wanting that microtransaction for candy crush.
     
  15. argent

    argent Member

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    Pretty much my thoughts on this.

    I don't see HOW there are numerous sites ie. The Verge and ArsTechnica can somehow headline it as a 'win' for Epic and a loss for Apple. I fail to see the actual wins and Tim Sweeney's hissy fit on Twitter is kinda anecdotal proof of this. Apple on the other hand were pretty gracious in their response to the results.
     
  16. ashenIC

    ashenIC Member

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    Is EGS the new dickbag company? A fresh of Windows and now the EGS program doesn't play nice with my firewall application of choice.
     
  17. Smegenstein

    Smegenstein Member

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    Sounds like a user error to me
     
  18. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

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    Maybe interference between reinstalled Windows firewall and the aftermarket one?
     
  19. ashenIC

    ashenIC Member

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    No, whitelisting all the usual ( Steam, GOG, Origin, Rockstar, Uplay, etc ) suspects work. I'll investigate further, but hmm strange.
     
  20. Sphinx

    Sphinx Member

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    Outbound restrictive firewall? bit para..
     

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