1. OCAU Merchandise now available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion here.
    Dismiss Notice

Ethernet cable too long - best way to extend the signal?

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by -Sk3tChY-, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,087
    Location:
    Melbourne
    that is exactly what people have been suggesting. the link between the HFC modem and the router (not a modem) at the other end is ethernet, not modulated signal - it will work fine as long as you can house and power the switch appropriately.

    the only other suggestion I can offer is a VDSL link extender kit which will work over much longer distances than you are talking. they are not cheap though. https://www.ple.com.au/Products/620164/Startech-VDSL2-Ethernet-Extender-Kit you're probably not far off the cost of a preterminated fibre cable and a couple of media converters there.

    apart from the aforementioned halfway switch, no. if there was, the whole world would be using them.
     
  2. MiloVasic

    MiloVasic Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    SOR WA
    "My hope was we could just cut the cable somewhere around the middle (near a power source) and just plug in a cheap gigabit switch."

    Yeah this what I was saying. except that I didnt realise you could cut near power.
    Cut and put the switch in a weather proof if required box. Or inside if possible.
     
  3. dragonFLAME

    dragonFLAME Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Somewhere Cool
    Do you have line of site between the buildings?

    2 x Ubiquiti antennas setup in PTP mode would net you 200mbps+ throughput for a temp solution.
     
  4. TRG.dOinK

    TRG.dOinK Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,515
    Location:
    Melb East
    Lots of hate for 5e?

    I've just wired up our workplace with 5e since we had a 300m roll of it under the house. We're connected at 1000Mbps fine which is enough. Plus the owner wasn't forking out their own money and the max cable lengths I ran were around 13m from memory.

    If it were my own home I'd install Cat6, but to be honest 10Gb/s is probably years away from being actually affordable, but I do also understand that its probably better to do it with 6 so you don't have to replace the 5e in 5 to 10 years time.
     
  5. McRutch

    McRutch Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    216
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great advice, lets crap on every electrician in Australia cause of one spastic..

    Afterall they've only done 4 years of training, a guy who's done a 1 week course and another day for a structured cabling endorsement is clearly a better choice.

    Maybe some proper advice would be, check the sparky has a structured cabling endorsement next time..
     
  6. Sledge

    Sledge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,237
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Or maybe the sparky just did as he was asked?
     
  7. maddhatter

    maddhatter Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    4,798
    Location:
    Mackay, QLD.
    The cable should be meter marked, subtract the lowest value from the highest value and you'll have the exact length of the run.
     
  8. fad

    fad Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,387
    Location:
    City, Canberra, Australia
    https://www.startech.com/au/Network...ps-VDSL2-Ethernet-LAN-Extender-Kit~110VDSLEXT
    https://www.mwave.com.au/product/startech-vdsl2-ethernet-extender-kit-over-utp-ab67013
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/201970874086?chn=ps&dispItem=1

    Use this over the current pair, to get a working VDSL link.

    Or this one
    http://www.wisp.net.au/vc231-ethernet-over-vdsl2-converter-p-785.html
    Set one side to CO and one to CPE

    Anything over 90m, or 305ft is too much. I have had runs in the 120-150m length and they don't work. I would run fibre next time. The above should work, however.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  9. Annihilator69

    Annihilator69 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    6,069
    Location:
    Perth
    Let's take one step back.

    Is this within the same building?

    You said you're plugging in a VDSL Modem into a NBN HFC Modem.
    I take it what you're trying to say is that you have a NBN HFC Modem which has Coax from the street coming into it. Then you want to connect your router (which in this case also has a VDSL Modem inside but is not going to be used) and the router will then connect to your switch and provide connectivity to your office.

    Can you put your router near the NBN modem?, then if you splice in a switch 1/2 way where you have power between the LAN side of your router and your normal office switch ~130M away then it will work fine.

    You should also be able to splice in a switch between the NBN Modem and the WAN side of the router, (since it's just Ethernet, but I've had some switches be a bit weird with doing the PPPoE through them).

    Worst case senario would be just to put a repeater 1/2 way. - All this does is accept an incoming signal and then retransmit it out the other end. (it needs some power to run it's microprocessor hence you can use a power injector.) (if you have a PoE Switch or a PoE injector already you don't need to buy another one.)
    Buy one of these

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._VOR_ORL_OUTREACH_Lite_Ethernet_Extender.html

    Then you need to power the device using Power over Ethernet so you buy one of these. (you could power this from either end wherever is more convinenant)
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/728209-REG/Veracity_VOR_OS_Outsource_Power_over_Ethernet.html

    and bobs your uncle problem solvered.

    You don't need to spend $700 on those VDSL2 Extenders, these are way overkill and are not designed specifically for what you want to do. These are designed for way more complex situations, for example if you have a normal phone line which may be 100-1000m long and you want to create an Ethernet link between the two. i.e a usecase would be is that you're in some 1970's large office tower which for some reason doesn't have vertical network cabling between each floor and you can't retrofit it. the building has phone lines going between the basement and each floor, you can setup a switch in the basement and have 30 of these for each floor in the building (skyscraper for example) which plug into the switch on one end, and the other end plugs into a phone line going to X floor, and then on X floor the other end of this unit plugs into that phone cable. Now you have a network outlet on each floor which can be used to talk to any other outlet on any other floor.

    The other use case for those VDSL extenders is if you have a huge block of land and you have two buildings say 400M apart and there is a direct phone line between the two buildings. i.e a farmhouse and a barn. You can put these on the each end of that phone line and now your barn has a network point which you can plug a pc into which can talk to any other device in the farmhouse.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  10. gords

    gords Oh deer!

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2001
    Messages:
    6,645
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Wow, way to take offence! I didn't crap on every electrician in Australia. Sparkies are great at doing electrical work. If they've got their cabling ticket as well, then they're also a data cabler (and thus are a "proper data cabler"). I've edited my post so it's clear that I don't have a problem with sparkies - just those that do data work when they shouldn't.

    Some data cablers are also sparkies, and that's fine. However, not all sparkies are data cablers (whatever they might say) - hence my suggestion to get a proper data cabler next time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  11. looktall

    looktall Working Class Doughnut

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2001
    Messages:
    26,159
    in addition to this, having a ticket doesn't mean they're good at what they do.

    i've used sparkies that are excellent at their electrical work but absolutely shithouse at their data work.
    and i've used sparkies that are equally good at both types of work.

    but i've never used a sparky that was as good at data as the guys i've used who only do data.
    which makes sense, since they specialise in data and that's all they do.
    i would expect them to be better at it.
     
  12. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,087
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I would expect a data cabler not to run such a long cable in the first place, because I'd expect them to know it wasn't going to work.

    I get this sort of issue regularly with field engineers who aren't specifically knowledgeable and experienced in data transmission. if they come from a primarily electrical background, they think like plumbers - leaks are bad, so as long as all of the electrons make it from one end to the other, it's alright, right? unfortunately, what that doesn't take into account is transmission quality.
     
  13. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Canberra
    OK OP,

    Grab a crimping tool and re-terminate an existing cable with only 4 pins (1,2,3,6) needed for 100mb/s.

    Your stretch sounds longer than needed for gigabit to do its automagic speed determination, it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of an NTU doing sync badly (TWBDSL) :/

    By using only the 4 pins, you're electrically forcing the devices to connect at 100mbps, both 100Base-TX and 1000base-t clock at a 125Mhz encoding rate.

    1000base-t is more susceptible to external noise because it uses a 5 level phase amplitude modulation to generate +1v,+.5v,0v,-.5v,-1.0v levels across the wire, to mitigate this 1000base-t uses Forward Error Correction to handle mangled data due to the full duplex nature generating echo and balanced pair crosstalk.

    100 Base-TX is less susceptible as it only uses +1,0,-1 making it easier to differentiate the waveform points without additional logic (think analog TV being a little fuzzy vs digital transmission not working without a higher gain antenna) this may get you a usable although not highly reliable 100mb/s link.

    To mitigate the above, gigabit utilises DSPs to process out the echo, crosstalk and induced line noise.

    Alternatively you can try using an older 100Base-TX pci Intel NIC or the like.
     
  14. McRutch

    McRutch Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    216
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I guess I did, See I'm an Electrcian, I have my cablers license, coax, structured cabling & fibre endorsements, and the only endorsement that I learned anything from that wasn't covered in my apprenticeship was the fibre one.
     
  15. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,931
    I think you have more than enough solutions in here

    if you have power in the middle then cut and put a cheap powered switch in

    use VDSL media converters like suggested a few posts up these will degrade with distance like you thought

    replace with fibre

    but i think someones idea that a bit more will be fine, 105m-110m sure but beyond that your pushing it for ethernet.

    as for 100mbit vs 1000mbit for distance it doesnt make a whole lot of difference the problem is attenuation for distances
     
  16. Pritchy

    Pritchy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Melbourne
  17. cal0006

    cal0006 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    A Galaxy far, far away
  18. OP
    OP
    -Sk3tChY-

    -Sk3tChY- Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    NSW, In a house.
    Hey guys - thank you for all of the replies. I'll hopefully have a chance to read through them all this afternoon.

    Just quickly though - yes I did word this poorly, we're plugged the NBN HFC Modem into the "WAN" port of the Optus supplied Sagecomm VDSL Modem / Router - so we won't be utilising any of the VDSL modem capabilities of the router.
     
  19. sir_bazz

    sir_bazz Team Papparazi

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,759
    Location:
    Mentone, Vic.
    I see.
    Just wondering if you've tried connecting the Optus device to the Arris modem with a short cable to test?
     
  20. DVDHack

    DVDHack Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,583
    Location:
    Regional Vic
    If it's a 100m run, maybe just try a really short patch cable at both ends to connect up. I read that patch cables have higher attenuation than solid. Worth a try anyway.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: