Experienced loop builders HELP needed for my first !!

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Jody Hodgson, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Please be gentle I seem to have bitten off a fair bit here and would love some help in getting it finished off:

    New Build in progress:
    Case Lian-Li 011D
    MB Gigabyte Auros Master Z390
    CPU I9-99ook
    GPU Gigabyte Auros Extreme WB RTX 2080TI
    C: Samsung 970 Pro NVME 512
    D: WD Black 1TB NVME

    Still on the hunt for low timing Trident Z memory (very hard to get hold of ATM)

    Now the bit I am struggling with Water cooling!!!

    My thoughts so far are as follows (based on product availability and ease of access)

    CPU Cooler: EK Velocity D-RGB CPU Waterblock Nickel Plexi
    Top and Bottom Rad: EK CoolStream XE 360 Triple Radiator
    Side Rad (optional?): Thermaltake Pacific C360 Radiator
    Pump: EK D5 Laing Vario Motor or a PWM version???
    Fans: Looking at either: Thermaltake Riing Trio 12 LED RGB Radiator 120mm 3 Fan Pack x3 packs with Thermaltake TT Sync Controller Premium Edition for syncing with MB or: EK Vardar EVO 120ER RGB Fan x9 somehow hooked up to the MB and synced (I get these are non addressable).

    I am trying to ensure good cooling for a decent OC and like the sync'd RGB look I love the look of the Aqua Computer cryos with Vision etc but they are like hens teeth ATM..

    As far as tubing etc I am still a ways off thinking of that (wanting the hardware to then measure up etc...

    I have even looked at maybe cross flow rads as they may reduce pipework in the build??

    Anyhow as you can see I have more questions than damn answers right now ...

    All help an assistance welcome and appreciated
     
  2. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Welcome mate. First, complete waste to price and fit a beautiful big loop like that without putting the GPU in it - do it once, do it right. Money doesn't seem to be an issue here from your parts list and prospective parts for WC, worth the cost of entry - GPU load temps are where the biggest gains are.

    You may struggle with two radiators in the O11, it's a bit tight on the side mount apparently if there's one in the front. I didn't know TT made non-Aluminium radiators, that's good and it'll be perfectly serviceable. You don't get quite as much heat exchange out of the thin ones, but they're quieter, more compatible and easier to fit. Between that and the 60mm XE, you're well over-subscribe. To be honest, two low-profile 360s would fit better and cool almost as well. I wouldn't stress on the radiators being cross-flow, it's a big empty void of a box, a bit of extra tube will help fill it out a bit :thumbup:

    Riing fans are excellent and I've no doubt their radiator ones will be too, albeit probably a bit noisier. I have to say though, their RGB software is pure shit. If you can sync it all up to your motherboard, that'd be the way to go. The Vardars may be easier there, dunno - not used the RGB ones.

    You've got plenty of room so a D5 and a healthy tube res gets my vote. PWM control on anything other than AiO pumps is a bit over-rated to be honest, your pump is happiest on and flat out. Just dampen or box it to control the noise. If you find yourself a bit stuck for z-height a newer DDC makes a pretty much level sidegrade, but the older ones were noisy.

    Hard or soft tubing is entirely your choice - soft tube is easier to work with and cheaper fittings-wise but hard tube takes a beaut photo, go with whatever you think looks best. If you need coloured coolant, consider automotive pre-mix or food colouring/distilled water for cheaper alternatives. Won't hurt anything, as long as your water has a bit of biocide in it.

    Fuck I could go on forever, beautiful rig and should look a treat no matter what you do to it.
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Thanks so much for your reply I just wanted to quickly respond with a quick notice that the GPU is Watercooled and will be in the loop it is the Auros Water Block version and it just fits in the 011 by all accounts.

    I was originally thinking two 360 x 60 and the optional thin rad in the side so maybe two of the Pe (instead of Xe) and the slim??

    I already have the 240mm dust plate so no red tube needed (just need the D5 in the back of it) I take your point re PWM there.

    I hear mixed reviews with rads but the more exotic stuff is just so hard to get hold of? And when you are a newbie to water it’s hard to get a flood solid order together confidently overseas.

    I am going hard tubing for this as I said I am diving in to the deep end here lol...

    Yeah I can get the rings synced to the mb with the Tt sync pro unit (does 9 fans).

    What sort of speed and pressure fans should I be looking at for the rads I am looking at it recommended rads above these?? I want good headroom for OC and not loud
     
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  4. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Ah sorry, I missed the 'WB' in your GPU description - that's tops. Was really my only gripe with your plan, and even then that's just 'cause I was blown away with my GPU temps first time I put a loop in - and that was CPU and GPU on a 240!

    Dirty radiator buying guide:

    - The most important variable is Fins Per Inch (FPI). This dictates how tightly the fins are stacked, and how much static pressure you'll need your fans to generate to give it the best shot.
    - For low-FPI rads (say, <18 FPI - this is my own thoughts, not scientific), you'll find they work best with slower, low-pressure fans, allowing you less noise at the expense of some heat transfer efficiency. For high-FPI rads (>18FPI), you'll need the higher SP fans to force air through the fin stack and make them work best.

    Dirty fan buying guide:

    - Static pressure (SP) is a measure of the air pressure generated by the fans airflow. It's measured by how much water a fan will 'push' out of the way when the fan is sitting right on top of the water surface. You'll see it expressed as 'X.Xmm H2O' - that's because at full speed, that fan displaces X.Xmm of water in front of it. The higher the SP, the more 'forceful' the air coming off the fan is.
    - Airflow is usually expressed in m3/s (meters-cubed [squared was wrong] per second) or CFM (cubic feet per minute). Higher airflow comes at the expense of noise, and often static pressure as rather than work on forcing the air, the fan blades are designed to just grab tonnes of it and give it a push.

    What would I do given your parts and budget?

    1. Two slim low-FPI 360 radiators (preference) OR one thick one. Two 30mm radiators will cool slightly better than one 60mm one, but it's not quite a linear relationship. It means more fans, but the choice widens.
    2. All-rounder fans to suit. If you wanted to stay in-house, the Lian Li Bora Lite's will pair okay with the C360 radiators, and they're cheap and will sync with your motherboard (apparently). Having bought Corsair, NZXT and Thermaltake RGB fans, and currently using NZXT Aer stuff - it's all overpriced and kludgey. If you go the EK route, you'll need half as many fans, but you'll need to beef up the SP rating a bit - those Vardar Evo ER's you linked earlier are nuts, and would certainly do the job. They won't be quiet at full tilt, but the 'ER' means their PWM range is wider and you should be able to find a happy medium there somewhere.
    3. This, I'm unsure if the newer Revo model from EK maintains compatibility with older gear but if so go that way if you like - it's smaller.
    4. Hugh for your fittings and tube.

    Radiator choice in Australia sucks noodles, if you ask me HardwareLabs and XSPC make the best ones, but good luck finding them new locally. PLE used to have a fair bit oif XSPC gear but gone by the wayside.

    :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  5. Deeb0

    Deeb0 Member

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    Don't stress too much about the rads and fans, whatever you put in there will work fine within a few degrees of the bees-knees stuff. If you have good water flow and the fans in push/pull it will be cooled well.

    I like shilling this website as its really good to understand everything about WC. https://www.xtremerigs.net/categories/reviews/water-cooling/radiators/

    Like Juzz said, grab 2 cheap 360s it'll make the case look fuller you could possibly run fans in push only to save $. My rad is low FPI and it allows the fans to push silently. I have an XSPC EX360 for my sig-rig and my idle delta temp is 5c and the attached pic shows full load for about 10 mins prime95 and furmark and this has the fans (5 fans only) barely audible. I think ~10c delta at full load is pretty acceptable (I still have fan and flow rate headroom) and I was freaking out about not having enough rad. I guess my point is that you cant stuff it up, just go with what you like and suits your budget. NB: my cpu core temps are very high at the moment.


    Click to view full size!


    Whatever you get make sure to flush the living heck out of the rads prior to filling.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  6. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    60/39 load. Sexy.
     
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  7. Dave

    Dave Member

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    I have never purchased from them, so no idea what service is like, but I found this Ebay store today while searching for water cooling parts, has lots of XSPC gear.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/str/vipc
     
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  8. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Top find Dave, they've got a site too at vipc.com.au, EX360s in stock. Two of those would be my first preference Jody, but again mate up to you. Pricing there is pretty good on the EX series too.
     
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  9. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Thanks guys invaluable input. I have ordered and I did look at the EX360's and while they definitely offer bang for the buck i was concerend on the physical core size being very thin compared tot he EK so I decided on the following hope it all will work well.

    1 x EK Intel CPU block
    2 x EK PE360
    1 x TT C360
    1 x Liang pump
    9 x LED RGB TT Ring Trio with TT Sync controller pro (this allows me to sync them to the MB allegedly, we shall see)
    using the 240mm dist plate for the RES.

    I think this brings me to Tubing and fittings etc I will research and post questions I guess soon before I dive in...
     
  10. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    That's a lotta rad!

    Very nice :thumbup:
     
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  11. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Yeah I was on the fence to go two PE360 only but want it quiet and liked the fans (although not the greatest static pressure) so figured the extra rad gives me some wiggle room for those things.... all assumptions mind lol
     
  12. emmjawsX

    emmjawsX Member

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    Just adding i ordered most of my fittings from vipc for newest build, no problems decently fast delivery etc. Just double check the stock level and you should be right.
     
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  13. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Had a bit more of a look around there today. Pricing is pretty good, range is excellent. I'm considering a pair of new radiators myself, might have to give them a go!
     
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  14. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    So things are coming along I am just waiting on the distro plate (which I have worked out wont fit where I wanted it so more to follow on that... Meanwhile a few questions as I edge nearer to the loop !

    I have done some research and all I can gather is that I need Distilled water with Biocide and a corrosion inhibitor for the lowest maintenance loop?

    It appears there is nothing wrong with regular Auto/Bike coolant water down with distilled water and it also appears there is a fair bit of snake oil out there.....

    I dont want to mess with dies and stuff that will gunk up and create more than necessary maintenance?

    I have read that kill coils are good I have read they are not required any more and create more issues than they solve??

    I have copper and brass rads with nickel plated blocks and a D5 pump so not sure if that effects the above?

    What should I use for monitoring? flow meters? flow indicators? temp sensors? I just read a lot of people having issues with them burning out/ leaking etc?

    I am keen to do Acrylic tubing (14mm or 16mm OD) up for the challenge as it appears to be a better final finish that lasts longer and less impurities leeching form the tubing into the loop??

    Keen for any and all advice!! (sorry for all the questions but my research is getting very conflicting results...
     
  15. radeon_freak

    radeon_freak Member

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    Quickest and easiest in regards to coolant is to buy a clear pre mixed/concentrate from EK etc. It doesn't stain you're gear and contains all the biocide/corrosion inhibitors. Alternatively you can simply use distilled water with a killcoil from pccg etc as a form of biocide. I don't bother with car coolant etc but there's lots of people out there using it just fine and works well.

    For monitoring avoid the cheap flow meters like the plague. Simply look at your res as an indication of what's going on. Once you're up and running loops are set and forget apart from the occasional top up and routine maintenance once in a blue moon.

    PETG is easier to work with than acrylic and same goes for smaller size tube. They both have advantages and disadvantages so it's really personal choice. Personally I'd go with acrylic. Bit harder to work with but looks ever so slightly better, kind of like glass. If this is your first time going hard tube make sure you buy a fair bit more than you actually need. No doubt you'll make a few dodgy bends as you get the hang of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  16. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    Don't worry about flow/monitoring

    Computers are smart these days, they turn off when they get hot, and monitoring of the actual water temp isn't really necessary. components getting abnormally hot Will be your indication things are wrong.
     
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  17. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    That’s awesome info and confirms a few thinks :)

    One thing I did not see in your reply was temp monitoring of the loop?

    Also i will avoid the cheap flow wheels however are there any flow meters that are recommended??

    Thanks so much for your help on this really good info
     
  18. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Good feedback so the kids approach is seemingly a good way to go :)
     
  19. radeon_freak

    radeon_freak Member

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    Tbh I don't bother monitoring temps in my loop. The only temps you're interested in is the load temps of your cpu and gpu. Coolant temps are somewhat irrelevant and the temp will equalize across the loop anyways. It will be something you will very rarely look at or even use, not worth the extra money and pain plumbing it in.

    In saying that you could always grab an inline temp sensor, I think XSPC make a few of them.

    Only flow meter I would even think about using is Aqua computer. Not readily available here in Aus and quite expensive. However you get what you pay for and it's the ants pants. Everything else is pretty much rubbish and will cause you drama down the track.

    Keep the loop simple mate to start off with. You can always add bits and pieces later on IF you find you need them for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  20. OP
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    Jody Hodgson

    Jody Hodgson Member

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    Good info and sobering. I will take this advice and see how I go with the first go at it
     

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