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Exposing Fraud And Deception In The Retro Video Game Market (Video)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by Flamin Joe, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    It shows.

    It'll help you understand what's going on and stop blathering nonsense.

    I do love this joke/meme. I'll still hear or read it in retro gaming circles, typically whenever someone is taking the piss out of an obvious shill.
     
  2. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    Yep all good. Australians just get their knickers in a twist whenever someone makes money in a novel way - especially when it's a large company.
     
  3. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    When "in a novel way" includes collision and shilling, that's not some sort of genius marketing strategy.

    That sort of behaviour is literally illegal in certain markets. There is nothing to be celebrated here, and it's certainly not just some "Australian pearl clutching".

    I don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread, but I feel like we've been invaded by the hyper capitalist Mammon worshipping crazies.

    Pretty sad when the love of money trumps common sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
    BuuBox, Flamin Joe, Pierre32 and 2 others like this.
  4. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    Excessively selfish behaviour perpetrated under the all-forgiving guise of Business is one of the human world's great failings, no doubt about that. Abstracting away responsibility to that ultimate nihilistic concept is literally killing our own habitat. But if we get philosophical it's gonna get depressing real fast, right friends, so let's not.

    Just everybody pls stop flinging your money at the mill/billionaires, ok?
     
  5. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    Firstly it's not shilling - don't believe everything you watch. It's a vendor-specified reserve - this is normal practice in most auctions. Secondly, the video presents no evidence of collusion.

    You are clearly just envious because someone else is making money and you're trying to rationalise why you feel bad by blaming others. Your envy is your own, unless you accept that you can never change it and you will go through life inventing reasons to blame others for why other people's successes make you feel bad.
     
  6. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    Now do Capricorn.
     
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  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Just when you think the primary school playground level debate can't sink any further, this happens.

    I salute you on knowing the difference between envy and jealousy. But you've suffered one hell of a false premise logical error there.

    It is, by its very definition, shilling.

    I pray you are never involved in anything to do with real world finance, and especially so for any ethical oversight committee or board. This is actually concerning behaviour.

    Again, one hell of a logical fail here, my friend. My personal financial situation is excellent, and I'm truly thankful for my very privileged position in life.

    But I'm even more grateful that I don't suffer the illness that is the late stage, hyper-capitalist greed, nor the delusional want to be a billionaire. I'm perfectly happy where I am with what I have, and do what I can to help others with my very fortunate circumstances, which brings me great joy.

    Meanwhile, I read threads like these, where yourself and "I can't hold down a job, live in my parents' house waiting for them to die, and comment on every market/finance thread" adamsleath tell us all that we're envious and don't understand how the finance world works. Forgive me if I can't take either of your philosophies on life's values in good faith.

    You've managed to get everything about me so utterly wrong. And it's fairly obvious to me that your summation of what's going on in this particular video is so utterly clouded by your false concept of "success", that the I'm chalking the rest up to you being another victim of this broken world and its ability to warp three minds of otherwise rational people into a life of justifying greed.

    At this point, all you've won is my pity.

    As for the video, it's gaining quite a lot of attention. I'm interested to see where this goes, as it seems this will soon turn into a legal issue with the way the accused have predictably reacted.
     
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  8. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    Then please go and make a video accusing all the people who sell their house via auction in Australia of shill bidding...

    Because the video is full of rubbish - look at their arguments. They're claiming fraud because they put provenance on the grading holder? Every grading company does this for any notable collection. They convinced you that stating the provenance of a video game is unethical and you think you're being rational about this? Nothing in this video is intended to convince people rationally that these companies are doing wrong. It's entirely aimed at people who already believe they're doing something wrong and want to hear someone agreeing with them.

    Of course you are. Envy stems from entitlement, not from impecuniousness. How are you rationalising this? You worked hard for your financial position? These guys are making money without working as hard as you therefore it's wrong?

    Envy is always wrong. You can rationalise it however you like but you're only harming yourself in doing so.
     
  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Shill bidding on property auctions in Australia is illegal. If someone did that, I don't need to make a video. There are relevant authorities I can report them to, and the person will be dealt with appropriately.

    "Setting a reserve" is not shill bidding. And what the accused are doing here is not that either.

    Agreed. And I repeat, if your only logical process is that I can only possibly hold these views because I'm envious, I suggest you dig a little deeper than this extremely shallow (and concerning) conclusion. There's far more to life than being envious of money, or people who make it at any cost.
     
  10. Copie

    Copie Member

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    Correction, getting caught shill bidding is illegal. Plenty of it happens, but is rarely if ever followed up.
     
  11. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Nah it’s all good - climate change has our back and will sort the greedy buggers out in no time (along with the rest of us…). Give it another 50 years or so.
     
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  12. Daft_Munt

    Daft_Munt Member

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    Yes and no. "Australians" dont really have a problem with people that have made money, it is when they peddle bullshit about their hardwork and trying to rewrite history.

    Example of no, would be David Walsh. Money from gambling (some from vineyards and brewing) pisses it up the wall on art, music and a museum, which relates to this thread. As he has influenced the market for wired/strange art, but is a socialist. He has quite a lot of support locally, for his impact on the local economy and society. Largely positive. Doesnt do political donations.

    Example of no, the Federal Group. Money from gambling/casinos/pokies/pubs and bottle shops. Mostly negative for society. Pisses money up the wall on horses in NSW/gambling. Bought the last state election for the Libs, due to Labour trying to remove pokies from pubs.
     
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  13. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    None of what David Walsh does seems to be novel, gambling is something most people do (especially the people who get angry at other people's successes).

    I would describe the general response from the masses as:
    - do something mainstream and succeed = idol
    - do something mainstream and fail = bad luck/unfair
    - do something different and succeed = luck/dishonesty/exploitation
    - do something different and fail = stupid

    I remember at a trade conference here an expert on Australian culture actually recommended attributing business success to luck (or to your customers' doing) as the Australian masses will otherwise attribute it to dishonesty. You certainly don't want to admit to having a plan to succeed.
     
  14. flain

    flain Member

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    However way you want to put it, they’re making money by taking advantage of people by deception. This is the real problem “Australians” take issue with.

    I get that a lot of people got rich by blatantly taking advantage of people while exploiting loop holes in the law or other dodgy things. These seem to be the same kind of people who get upset when “Australians” call it out.

    ..and no I’m not some jealous poor kid, I’ve done quite well in my professional life.
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Except there's nothing "different" happening here. Lying to investors, shill bidding, deceiving a market all in the name of artificially inflating the value of something is the second oldest profession.

    At least the oldest profession is honest about what it's selling, and what its value is.

    What complete garbage.

    My business helps other businesses. And part of that help is getting them to have a plan that is based on reality, not bullshit, and executing it openly and honestly. It is critical that the planning is open and honest - ensuring everyone from customers to investors to staff and contractors all know what's going on, and there are no shady details or conflicts of interest.

    At no time does the "plan" including needing to artificially hype the value of the products and services on offer, nor shill in any way to give the appearance of higher value, nor hide from either customers or investors who the directors and employees of the companies are, and exactly what they do.

    "Failing to plan is planning to fail". Nobody in their right mind attributes a good business plan to luck, as it's a guaranteed way to scare off investors and make your customers think you're nothing but an overnight fad, ready to burn out and fade tomorrow. A solid plan and solid honesty is the recipe for a long and healthy business, as well as a solid customer relationship that ensures you'll keep making money into the long term.

    Not a single business I help has ever had anyone accuse them of any of the practices that the accused in the video are demonstrated doing, and all of them openly celebrate their plans for success as the reason for their success.

    I'm starting to see the picture building here. For you, this is as trivial as "we hate rich people", and you see everyone in this thread as "angry" purely because of the money made, not because of the finer details of the deception that occurred in order for that to happen.

    You're really short changing yourself if you think it's truly that shallow. For the second time, I suggest you dig a little deeper.

    Between that statement above, and this earlier one:
    It's clear that, for you, the definition of success is profit alone, and the details about how that happens are secondary. Who gets deceived along the way is inconsequential, and bending the truth is all just a part of "normal" sales and marketing.

    Thank goodness for market regulation and ethics. Because it's viewpoints like this, that ruin it for everyone. Good profits can be, and are regularly made from honest business. And it's not a person's wealth as a pure number that matters. Like everything, intent and honesty are critical factors.

    Once again, I'm looking forward to the outcome of what happens from here. This is continuing to heat up, and raising a lot of questions. The accused are now on the back foot precisely because they've been outed, and the panic is setting in.

    Conversely, good businesses don't need to worry about being outed, because if they're open and honest from the beginning, there's nothing left to expose.
     
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  16. Daft_Munt

    Daft_Munt Member

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    But no comment from the Federal Group.
     
  17. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    Didn't see it as relevant. The masses rarely form opinions on companies, they form them on brands.

    You must've posted 1000 words by now and you still haven't provided any evidence beyond accusations. How about declaring which accusations from the video you actually think are credible and what evidence you feel supports them? Right now all you're doing is repeating accusations over and over again trying to be the loudest without providing any evidence.
     
  18. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    Yup, it's sad. People like wwwww are completely blind to the harm their attitudes do their own species, and nothing we say will convince them otherwise, even if told point blank -

    "even your very words in this thread are doing the rest of us harm right now as you speak : making the rest of us actually feel terrible".​

    Best to ignore and move on. Waste of good time and energy otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  19. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    we can engage and remain adult like, well most of us. I know i lose the plot on occasion :o
    its OK to have different opinions, but we should attempt to keep it civil
    you know, the old 'play the ball, not the man' line
     
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  20. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    I totally agree, which is why I specified that it's the attitudes which do the harm. It is fair to point out that one person is making the rest of us feel bad, because I doubt they realise it, and it is a very real thing. One individual's words making a whole bunch of others feel bad is the last thing this world needs right now. A sub forum like this should be a fun safe harbour away from that kind of conflict.

    We should be able to discuss something relevant to our niche hobby without snide TLDRs implying that we're all fools, repetitively calling people envious and making up weird deluded narratives about the lives of other members.

    I mean, what the???? really??
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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