Exposing Fraud And Deception In The Retro Video Game Market (Video)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by Flamin Joe, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    I totally agree, which is why I specified that it's the attitudes which do the harm. It is fair to point out that one person is making the rest of us feel bad, because I doubt they realise it, and it is a very real thing. One individual's words making a whole bunch of others feel bad is the last thing this world needs right now. A sub forum like this should be a fun safe harbour away from that kind of conflict.

    We should be able to discuss something relevant to our niche hobby without snide TLDRs implying that we're all fools, repetitively calling people envious and making up weird deluded narratives about the lives of other members.

    I mean, what the???? really??
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  2. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    while i quoted your reply, the comment wasnt aimed at shutting down what you had said.
    and while i agree with (a lot of) what you've said, adam and www should be free to express their thoughts.
    as wrong as they are :)

    edit - and thats not to say they get free reign to attack others. they very much need to keep it civil too
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  3. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    All I see is a bunch of people blindly believing and repeating accusations in a Youtube video getting upset because someone pointed out that not everything they watch on Youtube is true.

    The TLDR took out everything that's credible from the video. Everything else is speculation based on incentive (i.e. they must be doing something unethical/illegal because they have a financial incentive to do so) and unproven accusations.

    You're responsible for your own feelings. Nobody can make you feel bad.
     
  4. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    but it is what happens.
    marketers hype up the products. hoarders and scalpers mass buy up products increasing scarcity.

    in contrast to that you have plentiful supply and manufacturing efficiencies (in new products)

    the two aspects i see are, a retro space with basically cheap discards that are more readily accessible and available
    versus rare items being 'value added' priced upwards - you seem to be lamenting the value adding part to what some people, conveniently for some collectors, regard as junk and throw away for nothing. which is a handy thing for a collector/hobbyist of retrowares.

    anyway. the scam. there are scams and there are scams. fraud is dishonesty - there is fraud evident from the video. and fraud that has escalated prices based on sentiments by creating a fake market - (that bloke for example selling something to himself:lol:). the world is rife with such things - market hype.

    by drawing attention to it. i think it tends to make it worse. because the attention in itself is more marketing and wider exposure of 'the racket' and more people are likely to get in on the action.

    the thing that gets mentioned is that the hobbyist now has a much more expensive hobby. and that can spoil the fun. or something. but hoarding behaviours are like that. fat larry gets 100x while poor hobbyist gets zip. this is the graphics card space at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  5. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    "Not everything you watch on Youtube is true, but *I'm* here to provide everyone with The Real Truth" - Random Overclockers Australia Forum Poster generalises, then demands everyone provide him with a detailed thesis of proofs.

    Well that's great. :thumbup: No irony there at all.
     
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  6. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    You're the one making the accusations, you have the burden of proof.

    I see this is like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer not to believe everything on Youtube.
     
  7. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    at least we all agree with this part of the statement
    :lol:
     
  8. CRTified

    CRTified Member

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    I'm sure that once you've substantiated every one of your own many vague accusations in this thread (e.g. your oh-so-scientific-and-factual clairvoyant divining of other member's thoughts and feelings, lol), people would then be more than happy to engage with you on the same level.

    But as it stands you're the very thing you're trying in vain to preach against - random internet person throwing around flippant and in some cases rather laughable claims.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  9. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    Can we move this thread to CE&SD?
     
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  10. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Hi Pot, I'm Kettle. Nice to meet you.

    I am not the police and this is not a court of law. This is a community discussion forum, and these particular subforums are about retro video games.

    There is ZERO burden of proof on anyone from OCAU, yourself included, around this issue. Someone has released their body of evidence (which happens to be in video form, and we'll get to that in a minute), and we are commenting on how this is relevant to our hobby and community. That's it. Nobody here owes anyone any sort of evidence of anything. Whatever bee you have in your bonnet over "Australians" and their attitudes towards business is yours and yours alone.

    You're more than welcome to post your disbelief and even disdain for the subject matter. More power to you. But nobody owes you anything.

    On to the video part - previously it struck me that your point of view was that your issue was more around the belief that envy was the only possible answer as to why anyone could be upset at the collusion/shilling/conflict-of-interest practices documented by said video, but another trend in your posts has emerged:

    I'll get straight to the point here - the medium isn't the issue. It never is. TV, newspapers, radio, social media, YouTube - there's an "idiot with an opinion" on 100% of these platforms, and anyone who blindly believes 100% of it, no matter what their political or personal position, is foolish.

    But in the same breath, the platform is not the problem. No doubt there's a million idiots on YouTube. There are also a million amazing people who release well researched and accurate content. Such is the great distribution curve of life any where humans congregate. And if your issue is specifically YouTube itself, I have bad news for you - nobody's putting that genie back in its bottle. Never in human history have we moved backwards on new ways to spread information (regardless of anyone's personal thoughts on the quality of the information). My father was told as a child to stop reading fiction story books because they'd rot his brain, I was told to stop watching TV because it would rot my brain, and my children get told to stop using the Internet because it'll rot their brain. One thing is for certain, and it's that any new information distribution system scares the shit out of folks who weren't born with it. But I digress - the delivery mechanism is not the content, and the delivery mechanism cannot be used as a source of criticism. If this article was in print or on a web page, the evidence presented and content contained would be no different. And the fact that the video's author is already facing a legal knee-jerk over it demonstrates clearly that being in video form was still enough to rattle the accused, and still viable enough as a medium to share information.

    But, as has been said above, you are more than welcome to whatever position you want to take on this, and whatever level of disgust you want to share. If you want to believe that shady business practices are fine and should continue on unquestioned, and if you want to believe that everything on YouTube is a lie "because YouTube", you are 100% welcome to express yourself as such. But I repeat what I said above - nobody here owes you anything. Especially not any evidence to back up what the author of the video is claiming (who himself has presented some excellent evidence, if you watch the entire video past the headline), because for all of us this is mere commentary on our hobby and something that is of interest to us. I'm fascinated to see what happens from here, as I sure others are too, regardless of whether they agree or disagree with the statements made (because this could blow up or fizzle out, and either outcome is interesting).

    You have been heard - you think the business methods documented are justified and legal, and you think online videos are garbage. Message received and understood.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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    I feel a little bad in deciding to post a new thread. Should of just put it in the videos to watch thread but felt it was something of great importance to our hobby that we should all be made aware of.

    I honestly didn't expect we'd start getting randoms in here starting shit.
     
  12. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    You shouldn't. This is relevant to our hobby, and getting international attention across many news outlets.

    Not only that, but the issue around retro pricing increases has been a hot topic for some time. It's a perfectly valid thing to post, and definitely deserving of its own thread.
     
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  13. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    +1 on dont feel bad


    if the alleged activities had occurred with a stock or security on a stock market then it would be considered illegal in many places.

    it does sounds very close to manipulation

     
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  14. slavewone

    slavewone Member

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    Chiming in again to say thanks for posting.

    As someone who has tried to get something graded there, I was horrified.
     
  15. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    Sorry, that was definitely not the intention of my (somewhat snarky) comment. Rather the direction of the thread from page 3. :Paranoid:

    Agree that illogical pricing increases are worthy of discussion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  16. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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    Let the rich folk speculate and push prices up.
    Sell your tulips
    Profit
    Buy back tulips after the bubble bursts.
     
  17. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    How messed up would we be as a species if someone actually paid that much money for a copy of Super Mario Bros?

    lol
     
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  18. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Given that they're modelling it on baseball cards, and the first one of those debuted in 1886 and has yet to see a "bubble burst", that assumption of yours has serious flaws.

    But again, the issue isn't "this shit is getting expensive", the issue is "this shit is being manipulated illegally". There's already plenty of retro stuff that's well beyond my personal acceptable price limits (which isn't even "thousands", let alone "millions"), even without market manipulation, so for me that ship has sailed.
     
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  19. power

    power Member

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    I'm hearing this, Saturn is pretty much out of my budget now and DC is following it, the market manipulation most gamers don't care about it's just the "collectors". I mean they might as well just trade bits of paper with their names on it for all the worth there is in a sealed game.
     
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  20. greencamel65

    greencamel65 Member

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    At least the beauty of games is that we can actually still play the games thanks to the magic of Flashcarts, ODE's and Emulation - It would be a far worse state of affairs to the real enthusiast if we didn't have this kind of accessibility.
     

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