Farm Water Cooling (Water tank used as res).

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Madengineer, Jul 14, 2015.

  1. OP
    OP
    Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    14,420
    I don't think that's all that would matter. For days now, we've been seeing at least - 2 overnight, sometimes colder. Now a good deal of that will translate to the water. Definitely to below 0. Water won't miraculously freeze the minute it hits 0. Not when it's a few thousand litres.
     
  2. Shepete

    Shepete Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Bendigo
    You need to study a bit of physics MadE.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    14,420
    Lol probably.
     
  4. Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,540
    Location:
    in your gearbox...grindin
    no, he's ok. Purity as per above plays a part... "pure" H2O freezes at 0, however, it takes energy, or should i say energy deficite for the transformation from liquid to solid. So, water at one point in the tank may be of different to water in another part of the tank in state of matter as well as temperature.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    14,420
    This. Kinda like why a bottle of water freezes from the outside in. Lol

    But yeah I'm beyond caring. Haha. I just know the water is freezing cold.
     
  6. BigDave

    BigDave Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,706
    Location:
    ADELAIDE/5018
    You could power the water pump separately and run it 24/7 the moving water will literally will never freeze :thumbup:
     
  7. Moptimus

    Moptimus Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,094
    Location:
    Nambour-by-the-Sea
    Best bet IMO, use a total loss system, but drain to a tank/reservoir where you can install a sump pump on a float switch, that pumps back to top tank when volume of water is sufficient.

    You can stuff about with the water cooling, but I would look at the for sale section to get some cheap bits, not worth trying to DIY something unless money is a massive issue.

    Love the science in some of these sorts of posts:

    Water freezes at or around 0 degrees based on purity (sea water at ~ -2) but you need to account for some 336 kJ of additional energy transfer per kg of water to go from water at 0 degrees to ice at 0 degrees.

    You will never have water spurting higher than the top of the original water level without additional energy input regardless of the mass of water.

    If you have a pump in a completely sealed, completely full loop, you have to account for head loss from friction and restriction only, the energy requirement for pulling water back up to height (gravitational potential energy) is accounted for by the change of gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy when the water flows from the higher point to a lower point.

    Pressure at the base of a column of water is related only to the height of the water column, not to the volume of water.

    Moving water freezes.
     
  8. jfing14

    jfing14 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    I might be a little late to put my two cents in but here goes.

    First off. Water freezing relys on a couple of things. The one that affects things the most is probably purity in your situation. Another is pressure. Say in a water tank that sits at 9 degrees in the day and gets to -2 or -3 at night there may be a slight and passive pressure difference as it gets cooler in the pocket of air above the water between the roof.

    Due to it getting cool you could have less pressure on the inside of the tank than outside and thus the water would have more of a reason not to freeze. I'm no expert in these matters but that could make a little difference.

    Also if you want to make a decent water block I'd drill in through the sides of it to give it a little more surface area for heat transfer. And I'd really sand it down so its nice and smooth so the thermal paste isn't doing too much work. Also, use copper block. Iron/steel/whatever the blocks you have are made out of are no substitue for copper. There is a reason why you have to braise it and you can't weld it (heat transfers too well through the copper and you can't get an edge hot enough to melt in one spot).

    You'd also consider putting a silver coil in the pipe before the block to act as a biocide other wise you'll get mold or alge growing on it and that will act as insulation.

    I'd also definitely use a pond pump for this as this project is more of what seems like an experiment, a cheap pond pump is much better value for money.

    Good luck! I hope it all goes well
     
  9. Shepete

    Shepete Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Bendigo
    I see you are a new member. Welcome.:)

    I think you should read up a bit.
     
  10. jfing14

    jfing14 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Hello! I am new here although I've been on a few other forums for quite a long time. What exactly are you referring to? I've seen similar things done before. One a while ago was a giant underground cooling system where the guy had excavated a huge plot of area and used geothermal cooling for his setup. And I've done a bit of work on the freezing point of different liquids and how adding different solutions (particularly glycol) can change the thermocapacity of water and specifically how pumps take to it (or don't) and the flow rate after adding such things. I will hopefully be doing a phase change unit soon when I get a little money. If you would like me to source and give a bit of backing to the statements I have made I can certainly do so. Please correct me if I was wrong or at all too vague.
     
  11. Zangetsu.ssl

    Zangetsu.ssl Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Location:
    Sydney
    The pressure difference that you describe is negligible in terms of lowering the melting point of water - see phase diagram for water. Unless you have a significant change in pressure, 10 order of magnitude on either side of 101kPa, the melting point will be ~0C.
     
  12. HeXa

    HeXa Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    10,216
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    and copper can welded perfectly fine - just brazing is "easier"

    and a little silver kill coil won't do much for 5KL of tank water :p
     
  13. Zangetsu.ssl

    Zangetsu.ssl Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Location:
    Sydney
    Probably would be better to use an inline filter used for ponds and treat the water with UV to kill the microbes.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    14,420
    This discussion is going places that are a little out of my depth. Haha

    But I'll just say treating the water isn't an option.
     
  15. roomandu

    roomandu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    perth west australia
    G'day Mad,

    Interesting idea. Could definitely agree with being cold where your at. My first though was maybe somewhere in the A.C.T. or on the border of N.S.W / Vic.
    From what I have read there are some good ideas here for what you want to do.
    If you ran a pipe from the tank to the computer, I would put a simple tap device somewhere in this section. It will allow a small measure of flow control to the core. If it's close to the computer you would be able to turn it off without going outside if a problem develops.
    With the return, drop it all into a large bucket/small pond set up and have the pond pump in here, pumping straight back to the tank.
    Hope it helps in some small way.
    Good luck with the system and remember to clock like you stole it :lol:.

    Cheers
    Drew
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: