First water loop gaming HTPC (originally titled *Mineral Oil loop gaming HTPC*)

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Newbie12, Jul 27, 2015.

?

Your thoughts?

  1. I don't like this at all!

    13.4%
  2. I like it!

    13.4%
  3. Wow, never thought someone would think to use mineral oil in a loop

    28.4%
  4. This is just... no, just no. Please stop.

    53.7%
  5. Other thoughts(please post your thoughts down)

    4.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. JonnoHR31

    JonnoHR31 Member

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    Same here. Been running it through the first generation EK nickel blocks (the ones at the centre of the EK corrosion issue) for 3 and a half years now and they still look like new :thumbup:

    Best part is the 1 product can be used to top up the PC and my 2 cars (1 of them uses a fair bit of coolant).
     
  2. Jakusonfire

    Jakusonfire Member

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    OOOOhh La La, You is confusing the noob with deez crazy talk.

    The high specific heat of water means that at an achievable and average flow rate of about 4LPM it takes nearly 300W to heat the coolant by 1C as it passes through a block.
    So the coolant starts traveling through the loop and if your system puts out 600W of heat then after passing through the blocks it is 2C warmer. It gets to the radiator but the radiator isn't warm enough yet to dissipate the 600W so the coolant isn't changed in temp very much at all and heads back to the blocks again to be heated another 2C.
    As the coolant and radiator warms with each pass, each time it dissipates a bit more wattage to the air and the water is cooled back down closer to the same 2C as it is heated.
    This happens a few times until the coolant warms the radiator to a temp where it is dissipating the same 600W that is being put into the loop.
    The loop has now reached equilibrium. The coolant is warmed by 2C at the blocks and cooled by the same 2C at the radiator. So the max temp difference in this loop is 2C.
    A 5C max temp difference would require 1500W of heat at the same flow rate, or 750W at half the flow rate.
     
  3. m3k

    m3k Member

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    yeah..... oil and plastic impeller pump /rubber+plastic seals /rubber+plastic tubing is a no no- youd need a custom loop to pump oils

    really custom- very expensive

    its best in your case to use car coolant and distilled water - if you have aluminum rad + copper parts- probably want to use stuff used in euro cars- the pink G13 stuff

    if its cast iron and other metals like that - hit up the green stuff at any auto store :p

    simple as that y0

    i ran water with liquid utopia for 3+ years without any issues other than the tiniest of corrosion and nickel pitting and stuff- ran it for years after there was nickel and corrosion in the loop without any issues... still cooled excellently. its all cosmetic damage in that case

    no gooping in my blocks or pump still went hard no worries...

    just make sure your compression fittings are tight and your not leaking and its fine, you dont even need high flow for good cooling. it helps- but not by alot. radiator surface area matters most


    so yeah- without even getting into the details much- this is a pretty silly project. and a bit of corrosion doesnt even hurt and takes years to product by the time it happens you're going to upgrade your parts anyway. so you dont even need to run car coolant....

    lots of cars run car coolant with tap water aswell. FYI- even against manufacturer specifications. And nothing bad really happens either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  4. pieceofchance

    pieceofchance Member

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    I am sad that this is not a joke...
     
  5. Annihilator69

    Annihilator69 Member

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    Don't forget pumps like the MCP etc need to be primed to get started and flowing properly otherwise they burn out.

    Probably really hard to prime with mineral oil which is why they burnt out like instantly like you said.

    Again mineral oil is cool for submersion for the wow factor but just use distilled/de-ionised water. I've been using it for 13 years and never have killed anything or had any leaks. I don't even use hose clamps.

    Keep your loop simple and less joins = less chance of leaks.
    Also another major factor which I live by is keep one metal in your loop.

    My first loop I mixed Aluminium and Copper and the Aluminium showed galvanic corrosion.
    Ever since then I stick to 100% Copper if possible and never had a problem.
    Now days it's hard as people like having things shiny and things are mixed.

    Nickel plated copper isn't too different so it's within tolerance.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bslcl8885...AAwo/5VJNx60ZsGs/s1600/Dissimilar_Metals2.png

    This way I only need to run de mineralised water and no coolant/inhibitor. This is why my 11 year old radiator looks the same as the day I bought it. I never have issues with build up or gunk etc. I find using coolant etc over time it breaks down and starts to separate and stains your parts.
    I nearly died when I saw you spent around $700 just on connectors.

    My whole loop didn't even cost me $700

    Radiator BIX 360mm ~$150 from memory like 11 years ago.
    MCP 350 pump ~$150 from memory like 11 years ago.
    CPU Waterblock ~$120 4 years ago
    GPU Block ~$120 2 years ago
    Tubing, David Gray distilled, and misc connectors $30

    So probably less than around $600 all up.


    Click to view full size!
    My case right now - Living life on the edge there straight piping on to that res hahaha....


    Click to view full size!
    My case when I installed it.

    The only thing I've done to it in 4 years and 1 month is swap the GPU for a new one and new GPU block to go along with it.

    Also I has gathered some dust in those four years plus my mobile phone camera has dramatically improved!

    I'm also in Perth so if you need help with something I'm happy to assist a build or something.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  6. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Well the reservoir is above the pump and the flow of liquid should get to the pump's inlet. The oil slowly manages its way from the reservoir to the flow indicator and then gets sucked up by the pump.

    When I get this loop completed, I will fill the loop with as much water as I can without starting the pump, and then start the pump and slowly fill in the reservoir with more.

    Yeah, I suppose I went a little overboard with those QDCs, drain valve and such.

    Interesting, staying with only one metal type that only touches the water.


    Yeah well, saving up for a rainy day gave me that ability...heh.


    Nice build, for a computer that has lasted 11 years. P4 era? I wasn't knowledgeable about computers then

    Cool, the more help, the merrier!

    ======================

    Ok, I'll just stick with proper coolant mixture so that means going with LU.

    Um, did a little DIY with my rad stand and here's what it looks like with the rad fitted on(it's a bit rough - I know but I'm not exactly one to make a DIY thing look exceptionally well made and presented; hopefully I'll get there!):

    [​IMG]

    I would have gone out and bought better cut pieces but my car was busted and I couldn't be bother walking/taking a bus some kilometers to my nearest hardware store. So I thought, hang on a minute, I should still have some scrap metal from all those computer boxes I dismantled that I no longer need. Haha

    So yeah, all I needed was a pair of snips, tape measure, rivets (and the thingy that you put the rivets in so you can like staple pieces of metal together - I don't know what it's called) marker and the case of an old computer. Luckily, all that was at my place so I didn't need to go anywhere to grab them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  7. Annihilator69

    Annihilator69 Member

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    This is how you don't get corrosion and how you keep your blocks nice and clean and not get pitting.
    When you mix metals with a different galvanic index you essentially get an electrical connection between the anode and cathode. The anode loses elections to the cathode so it essentially dissolves away.. The greater the differences in voltage he faster the flow of electrons and thus the corrosion rate.
    When in doubt try and keep copper as it's the best thermal conductor apart from silver which is expensive, if you have a choice between a top for your copper bottom block, choose copper, if copper is not available, failing that choose acetal delrin (very strong/doesn't crack or react), then plexi (can be brittle, has a chance of forming micro-cracks around barbs holes from over tightening which can cause leaks), then nickel. If aluminium is the only option. Choose another block don't even bother.

    Haha no the PC isn't 11 years old!
    The W/C loop just moves from one PC to the next.

    For example this was the loop before the current PC. - Extremely simple, it's not fancy as some of other other guys on here but it works really well. Short & fat 1/2" ID tubing puts less stress on the pump, having no tight bends keeps flow rate up.

    http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/index.php?page=image&id=ss023&nav=user

    Had that on my Athlon XP, then exact same set-up on my Athlon64 then moving on to my Operton and then again to my Core2Duo, Shit that's probably a 10 year span just there. But then moving to the i5 the I didn't have an adaptor plate for the new socket holes so my G4 had to be retired but it still looks as new as the day I bought it.

    So basically all that's upgraded is overtime is new tubing and a new CPU block with an addition of a GPU block.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  8. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    pop rivet gun
     
  9. kot0005

    kot0005 Member

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    Wow I thought this was a mineral oil immersion or submersion. Why would any one use oil in their loop ?? It has low heat conductivity, transfer and is highly viscous. You might melt your tubing. Oil doesn't like loosibg heat fast so it will just burn everything.
     
  10. rainwulf

    rainwulf Member

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    I have run tectalloy pretty consistently now for over a decade EASILY in various loops over the years.

    I just get the pre-diluted 50 percent stuff from supercheap and pour it in, i dont even bother to dilute it any more.

    Zero corrosion. I have even had it a leak onto the motherboard, and it just dries out to this sticky green substance that you can just wipe off. All my loops have used home made blocks in them, usually copper with electronics solder. ZERO corrosion.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Ah, cheers.

    Then I would have titled it "Mineral Oil submerged gaming HTPC" But yeah fair enough, my current title is a bit vague. I can't change the title for some reason, maybe standard users can't change titles except moderators and Admins.

    Well if you got enough rads to disperse the heat from the oil it shouldn't burn anything - that was idea except that PLE came up short on that and the fact that I need a $2k+ pump to be able to pump oil effectively in a closed loop.....Oh and the fact that I also need not have any restrictive parts along the loop - but that shouldn't really matter that much if I have a $2k+ pump that can pump liquid viscosity twice or triple that of oil.
     
  12. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    nope just go back to your first post and click edit/go advanced, brings the title up.

    Well if you got enough rads to disperse the heat from the oil it shouldn't burn anything - that was idea except that PLE came up short on that and the fact that I need a $2k+ pump to be able to pump oil effectively in a closed loop.....Oh and the fact that I also need not have any restrictive parts along the loop - but that shouldn't really matter that much if I have a $2k+ pump that can pump liquid viscosity twice or triple that of oil.[/QUOTE]

    if you have a 2k pump you've spend 2k on the wrong parts.... we've got tons of oil coolers at my work (power station) but we use water to cool the oil instead of air, but all the oil systems are used for lubricating, not cooling. i think you'd honestly find any system anywhere that specifically uses oil for cooling.

    but as mentioned a bunch of times in this thread, its an expensive lesson learned for anyone else contemplating this type of cooling
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Oh you can too! haha heh... Had to go advanced. I swear I never saw that before....must have been my imagination then...



    Yeah true, unless you got money to burn; in my case that would be a no.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Cool, my bottle of LU has finally arrived! Here are some pictures of it:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    At first I was expecting a fairly large bottle of it but then remembered it was only 15ml! hahaha:lol:

    I used a 250ml measure jug to mix and pour the mixture into the loop.

    After some short calculations, it would appear that I need 0.9375ml of that LU stuff in 0.236588125L of distilled water. I measured and just stopped at ~240ml using a small 10ml syringe I had lying around.

    So I use this small syringe of mine to pour ~1ml of LU into every 240ml cup of distilled water I have. My loop took about five cups, so that's about 240x5= 1200ml of coolant mixture added. I poured from the top of the radiator as obviously that's the highest point and also unscrew all two screws to let air come in also the screw on the reservoir so I could fix that up to.

    And here is the loop in question:
    [​IMG]

    Hm, it would seem the blue LED diode I had to light up the insides of that vortex spinner isn't as bright as I thought it would be as I still cannot see through the Bloodshed coloured face plating on it! hah So much for that...
    [​IMG]

    I will be running it overnight(and possibly another day or two) and testing it for any leaks. So far there is none. It would also appear that you need the PWN connector not be connected to the motherboard or else the pump won't start....unlike the manual speedstep version.

    Once all the little bubbles disappear in the pump, it's very quiet. There are however small little bubbles on the CPU block which I'll eventually somehow bleed out....
     
  15. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    That's a $12k computer?
    Mate next time you have 12k spare let me know, I make you happy.
     
  16. BlueRaven

    BlueRaven Member

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    Pool Room nomination right here. :thumbup:
     
  17. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    when you look at it like that its a scary thought.
     
  18. Little Man

    Little Man Member

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    You really don't have an eye for aesthetics do you
     
  19. BlueRaven

    BlueRaven Member

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    Reckon he's got more important things to worry about than aesthetics at the moment... ;)
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    I haven't finished yet, I still got two more SSDs to go about with!

    And here they are, lol:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now I have the CPU block installed onto the mainboard and doing some more overnight leak testing and bleeding.

    The 8pin CPU power connector was too short for cable management purposes so I'll probably drop by at PLE computers for an extension cable if they have any or just buy online if they don't.
     

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