[WIN10] Gone back to WIN 7

Discussion in 'Windows Operating Systems' started by Mathuisella, Apr 26, 2018.

?

All driver/game/compatability issues aside, which do you perfer 7 or 10

  1. Windows 7

    45.5%
  2. Windows 10

    54.5%
  1. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Logan, Qld

    Again I ask, so what? You honestly think Seven wasn't monitoring and reporting back everything you do? I have only had one update brick my W10 install. I must have reinstalled W7 3 or 4 times due to update overlap causing previous updates to become unstable. Again, my experience, YMMV but I don't understand the "hate" for either OS, horses for courses and all that.
     
  2. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,054
    Location:
    Canberra
    It's not "hate", it's a logical objection to losing control over your own OS environment.
     
  3. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    13,270
    Windows 10 LTSB is only available under Windows 10 EE, which is all but unavailable to the average consumer - Anyone that claims to have it has most likely bought an illegal key or is running a pirated copy of the OS. I really do find it amazing just how willing people are to defend Microsoft's choices when it comes to Windows 10, as a society are we really that weak?
     
    PersianImmortal likes this.
  4. NSanity

    NSanity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    17,602
    Location:
    Canberra
    its a balance for me.

    The improvements in the literal ability to do my job far outweigh most peoples shiny side out arguments. And somehow the 3 machines I regularly use (MS Surface Pro 3, Dell Latitude 5580 and my X99 6950X desktop) don't have any problems. Not really sure what you people do to your pc's.

    Settings annoys me. Update "windows" have been fixed. I have better stability that Win7 (although not by much, 7 was by and large pretty stable after SP1). I have far better performance on modern hardware/devices (UEFI/GPT/NVME). etc. etc.

    I run the Pro SKU as well. Everyone complaining about Candy Crush and Xbox or whatever - I don't know what you people do on your computers. I almost never use the start menu - and if i do its Winkey -> 3 letters of what i want -> enter - and its basically 98% accurate.

    Everything i regularly use is pinned to my task bar.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  5. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Logan, Qld
    Fair enough if you like that level if control, for many users I don't think it's a here-nor-there. And sorry if you thought my hate comment was directed at you specifically, it wasn't my intention to be derisive. But having read other forums with the 7 or 10 theme, there is some vitriolic commentary out there. I agree with the post at the top of page 2, functionally Windows 7 has had its glory days and soon it'll be 7 users having to find o program hacks to use upgraded hardware/software. Office 2019 is slated to not be supported on nothing but Windows 10 from what I've read.

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...oft-office-2019-if-youre-on-windows-7-or-8-1/
     
  6. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    13,270
    A fair reply and totally understood. Personally I believe my OS should respect me without mountains of tweaking as my PC is mine and doesn't belong to Microsoft, I'm also not a fan of the mishmash touch/desktop UI of Windows 10 and can't help but feel that as an OS it really is a compromise of both interfaces and doesn't really excel at either.

    I'm also a firm believer in "Coffee before work"! ;)
     
    NSanity and power like this.
  7. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,514
    Location:
    brisbane
    dear operating system you are not important, stay out of the way please.
     
    flu!d likes this.
  8. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,054
    Location:
    Canberra
    I've sidetracked this thread a fair bit, so I'll have one last (looong!) say here and then I'll leave it to you guys :)

    I wasn't offended, but I do want people to understand that some of us aren't criticising Windows 10 because we're MS/Windows haters or Linux zealots. You may not be aware that I've vigorously defended Windows in the past when I felt the criticisms were unwarranted. For example, I was a staunch defender of Windows Vista ten years ago when it was hugely unfashionable, and Microsoft took notice of my Vista love on its official Windows Vista Blog.

    The reason I defended Windows Vista is because, as problematic as it was initially, a large part of the problem was lazy third party driver support, which is not Microsoft's fault. Vista was a major step forward in Windows architecture, implementing most of the positive groundwork for what became Windows 7, as well as much of what is still in Windows 8/8.1 and 10.

    Windows 7 achieved the "Goldilocks state" for Windows operating systems, with an excellent balance between user choice and Microsoft's needs.

    Windows 8 represented a major step backward in terms of user interface and customization, as Microsoft tried to hastily graft a mobile-oriented face onto what is primarily a desktop OS, and started down the path of reducing user choice just to serve its own needs. For example, the initial version of Windows 8 forced you to boot to the Start Screen full of large tiles just because Microsoft felt that a tabletized interface was the wave of the future. Only due to strenuous user complaints did MS back down and eventually return the boot to desktop option, then finally made boot to desktop the default for PCs.

    Windows 10 is a race to the bottom, with Microsoft going all-out to cater to its needs rather than ours. MS has nothing to lose now, so Windows is basically a free gateway into earning money from you through ads (sorry, suggestions), Windows Store apps, Onedrive cloud, data mining, and lord knows whatever else they can think up. In my opinion, Microsoft is now a visionless company that is constantly changing (and often violating) their own rules and standards just to clumsily push users into whatever they feel will net them the greatest profit.

    This thread has already demonstrated that there are a lot of factual misconceptions about Windows 7 vs. Windows 10. Factually speaking, Windows 10 has reduced user choice in terms of customisation and control over critical features such as Windows Updates. It has substantially increased integrated, unnecessary impositions, and no, Windows 7 did not "report back on everything you do to Microsoft". I'm honestly surprised that people here, and across the web, are simply brushing aside concerns over a rather large stream of encrypted data flowing out of their system!

    Performance-wise, Windows 10 can be better than Windows 7 because it has been optimised under the hood and also graphically detuned, because MS was hoping to break into the mobile device market and thus decided upon a one-size-fits-all interface that is light on the GPU and favours battery life.

    Technically, there are improvements in Windows 10, and indeed many of them were introduced in Windows 8 - such as a better file transfer dialog and Task Manager, WDDM efficiencies, security improvements, better support for the latest hardware, etc.

    Stability-wise, as NSanity says, I'm not really sure what people are doing to their PCs to experience major problems. Windows 10 is as stable as Windows 7, as is Windows 8.1. As long as you don't automatically update to the latest RTM build of Windows 10, aka Unpaid Beta Tester mode, you should be fine given MS eventually irons out the bugs. So given the major April Update for Windows 10 is out next week, as long as you're on build 1703 or 1709 of Windows 10, things should be stable.

    The choice then, to my mind, comes down to customisation, privacy, and control over your operating system, and how much time you want to invest into tweaking to get Windows to meet your needs. If your answer is that you don't care about these things, Windows 10 is for you. If you do care about these aspects, I would recommend Windows 7.

    In fact, Windows 8.1 might be an even better choice if you can find a copy, because with a handful of mostly free third party programs (8Gadgetpack, Classicshell or Start8, and Aero Glass if you like that look) it can be made to look and act just like Windows 7, and gives you greater control over your OS (no forced Windows Updates) while still providing many of the technical benefits of Windows 10. Windows 8.1 also gives you a few more years of official support, up to 2023, as opposed to 2020 for Windows 7.

    Otherwise, if you have your heart set on Windows 10 and you care about controlling your own OS, then put aside a large chunk of time for research and tweaking. It's taken me many, many hours to get my Windows 10 install (build 1703) looking and acting the way I want - and it requires constant maintenance to keep it that way whenever I install Windows Updates. Here's a snapshot of my desktop - a minimalist hybrid Windows 7/10 look. Key third party programs I use include 8Gadgetpack, Start10, O&Oshutup, and a ton of Registry and Group Policy tweaks to control the OS.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,514
    Location:
    brisbane
    good post PI, W8 for many loyal users is when the entire market started to shift and Microsoft doubled down on trying to monetise users AFTER the sale changing the OS from a product to a hosted service deliver platform and store like the highly successful Apple and Android app stores.

    It's working too, they are selling more and more subscriptions than ever (O365 more than anything) which mean that while you are always on the latest version you are paying more than before as an Office SKU is not required to be updated as often as the software developer wants you to. (eg Office 10 is as good as things need to be today).

    It's much easier to shift revenue just from bumping subscription costs to increase revenue in a predictable way and this absolutely is Microsoft's vision for the future. They are no longer content with selling you a thing every 3-5 years now they just want to tip your wallet upside down and keep shaking it for every penny. We are truly in the SAAS future.
     
  10. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    13,270
    Wow! That looks a metric shit tonne better. The issue is the time taken to achieve such improvements, the possible issues surrounding such improvements (When I was running Windows 8.1, Start 8 worked a treat, but I did experience numerous Start Menu crashes) and the problems surrounding the abysmal Windows 10 updater and the fact that a number of your tweaks are most likely going to break upon being forced to install the next major update.

    Apart from that, as stated, damn good job. ;)
     
  11. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Logan, Qld
    Gotta admit that does look a sight better than the stock W10 interface, which no doubt is slated towards tablet/phone users (I don't know anyone who has a Windows phone now, from my experience it actually sucks on phone but works well for touchscreen laptops and tablets).

    I appreciate your taking time to outlay what you did, it is a great outline of the pros and cons of 10 for anyone sitting on the fence. Thank you.
     
    PersianImmortal likes this.
  12. OP
    OP
    Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,738
    Location:
    in your gearbox...grindin
    Yeah the whole spying, forced shit and unnecessary change of the interface and not everything just 'working' when i connect it up.... All bundled together turns me off of ever wanting to use windows 10.
     
    frnak likes this.
  13. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Logan, Qld
    Is not unique to Windows 10.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,738
    Location:
    in your gearbox...grindin
    but in win10 it's impossible to stop.

    and amongst my other points it all adds up to quite the unfriendly experience.
     
  15. pwlm1975

    pwlm1975 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Logan, Qld
    I get where you're coming from and cannot disagree as that is your experience, which differs from mine. The big differentiator is, when W10 was released, MS made no secret about what Cortana was designed to do. In Windows 7 I don't remember hearing too much press around it so people didn't tend to let it worry them. I guess it's just dependent on your expectations, what works for the individual. It's kind of like the Ford/Holden debate in a way, and nobody can win that argument because it's subjective too.

    As one of my work mates says, "you do you". I am too old to properly understand or care to understand what that means, but I feel like it may be relevant.
     
  16. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    13,270
    Spying at OS level is never acceptable.
     
    frnak and PersianImmortal like this.
  17. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Messages:
    140,590
    Location:
    Omicron Persei 8
    Windows 10 clearly the preferred OS in the poll.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,738
    Location:
    in your gearbox...grindin
    2 to 1 ratio, i guess people don't like their privacy that much. I also wonder how many sat througfh hours and used other programs to set win10 to something they're more familiar with....
     
  19. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Messages:
    140,590
    Location:
    Omicron Persei 8
    Or maybe just happy to trade off for the latest and greatest.
     
  20. Sphinx2000

    Sphinx2000 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    7,519
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It's very easy to turn telemetry reporting, auto-updates, and more off with free config tools.
    Shutup10 is my favourite: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: