[WIN10] Gone back to WIN 7

Discussion in 'Windows Operating Systems' started by Mathuisella, Apr 26, 2018.

?

All driver/game/compatability issues aside, which do you perfer 7 or 10

  1. Windows 7

    46.3%
  2. Windows 10

    53.7%
  1. DerekP

    DerekP Member

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    Fuck Microsoft. I still use Win7 because my system is 3770 with Nvidia 670 - so there's nothing in 10 that helps me and i dislike Microsoft generally and like someone else said: #noreasons to change to 10. However, i don't use Windows any more anyway, Windows is just a console to play games on. I switched to Linux for anything else about a year ago and haven't looked back. Windows gets booted for a couple of games and that's 99% it.

    Anyway, rant complete - i plan to upgrade this year and get some sexy new gear. Won't i "have" to get/use Win10 because of AMD/Intel dropping support for Win7? I mean, Win7 will still work but i presume the chips will be optimised for Win10 and have relevant drivers and updates etc. Pisses me off that i have to spend a couple of hundred dollars to get access to my games. And no, i have not had any real reliable success with Wine.
     
  2. DerekP

    DerekP Member

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    I agree with this. A lot of UIs are doing it and it's just wrong. Colours are meaningful to humans and more easily instantly recognised than shapes. I think it's a fad and i don't think it'll last honestly. I suspect it may have started as a way to make everything smaller and faster for mobile - smaller file sizes due to less complex images. It can look great - in the right places - but for things like buttons on a Word Processor it's kinda retarded.
     
  3. rainwulf

    rainwulf Member

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    Its not smaller and faster though. Pixel for Pixel, the same interface in 10 is a hell of a lot bigger then it is in windows 7. No need for it at all.

    I wouldn't have a problem with it if they could actually FIX the dpi scaling issue, but thats horrificly broken.
     
  4. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Strange that, what with an encrypted data stream and closed source code.

    Of course that automatically equates to any sensible person simply trusting Microsoft and not asking any questions or raising any concerns, right? Gotchya.
     
  5. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    They (MS) drop security support in 2019, so yeah, basically.


    The worst thing is that every button is basically a hyperlink now - or Can be - which is how MS fucks over novice users:

    [​IMG]

    Like I said, malware tactics...


    I think it is faster, at least the interface side of things - generally faster to just display blocks of colour than scaling/displaying bitmaps etc. But it still sucks. MS made a leap of logic that we're all going to be using tablets in 2025, which is rubbish, as we're not. 90% of work will probably continue to be down on PCs.
     
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  6. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    In complete agreement about the user interface, and the malware-like tactics Microsoft has been using to get Windows 7 & 8.1 users onto Windows 10, get Windows 10 users to use Edge and other Windows Store apps, and to get Windows 10 users to upgrade to the latest builds despite their explicit blocking of it in their Windows Update settings.

    The latest episodes of these underhanded tactics are:

    Microsoft admitting to "accidentally" forcing earlier versions of Windows 10 onto version 1709 last month, disregarding Windows Update settings to the contrary; and

    Microsoft deliberately pushing the new version 1803 onto any Windows 10 system which manually checks for regular updates as of this past week.

    It's become so bad that even a blatant pro-Microsoft fan site like Neowin is advising against checking for Windows updates in an editorial entitled Just stay away from Windows Update on this patch tuesday:

    I honestly wonder how or why anyone can defend this sort of behaviour. And I also honestly wonder why Microsoft has completely lost the plot regarding the basic concept of the carrot and the stick - as a company, you need to give people a positive reason to entice them to use your product (the carrot), not just constantly trick and force them to use it (the stick).

    Short of a mass migration of billions of users to Linux - which frankly is just not going to happen - our alternative is to actually speak out against, and resist, such tactics, so that Microsoft changes its strategy.

    Anyway, according to the Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet Windows 7 gets extended support (which includes security updates) right up to 14 January 2020, so Windows 7 users still have another 18 months of security updates. As I mentioned earlier, Windows 8.1 is actually looking to be a great option, because it gets extended support for another four years, all the way out to 10 January 2023. It can easily be modified to look and act like Windows 7, but is technically better in several respects.
     
  7. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    You can speak out as much as you want, it will change nothing. Why would it? They have your money, you aren't going anywhere so they'll get more of your money when they make it subscription only. Why do they care whether you like it or not?
     
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  8. theSeekerr

    theSeekerr Member

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    I agree with the rest of your post, but not this. Scrollbars are useless 99.9% of the time. They shouldn't be taking up content space when I don't need them.
     
  9. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Because with Windows 10 they don't "have my money"; it's a free operating system which requires user interaction and usage of key features (e.g. Windows Store & Onedrive) for Microsoft to actually get my money so to speak. By resisting "upgrades", disabling or ignoring monetization-based features, even switching back to Windows 7 or 8.1, you can effectively send a message to Microsoft that their strategy isn't going to pay off the way they hope it will. It did work with Windows 8 to a fair extent, getting MS to back down from literally turning desktop PCs into tablets.

    Furthermore, raising these issues also helps inform Windows users who otherwise wouldn't be fully aware of them, or worse still, those who are defending such tactics under the misguided impression that it's just "haters" and Linux users who have a problem with this. There has to be a happy middle ground between passively doing what MS wants you to do with a dopey grin on your face, and throwing away years and years of Windows usage experience completely and switching to another OS.
     
  10. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    But, as shown by your previous post, they can just ignore what you have "disabled" and install whatever they want instead. The "instead" can (and will) require you to pay a subscription. Nothing is free, they "gave it" to users because they got something. What they got is complete control. Complete control means you don't have any, any more.
    Switching back to 7 or 8 won't help, they can over-ride your settings on those as well and they can deliberately break it so it won't work.
     
  11. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Billion Users. With a B. In a world where CSS, HDCP, Xboxes, 360's, Playstation 3's and various other "really hard" things have been broken - no-one has worked it out.

    Obviously they are reading your mind and picturing you naked.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

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    So the gist of it is ( from reading peoples posts in this thread )


    Win 10 = spying and forced updates with malware and deceptive tactics to get you to buy shit and hand over privacy/control , also has hardware compatibility issues.



    win 7 = Just works, but may be 2% slower in applications. Has been around a while, so it has driver support for hardware released over the last 9 years since release and even older. ( say hardware manufacturers made win7 drivers for their stuff retroactively, for say hardware from 2006 in 2009 once win7 was released )

    Why would anyone want 10 with all the downsides ? i honestly don't see how one could justify it when weighing up the good and bad.
     
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  13. Sphinx2000

    Sphinx2000 Member

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    You forgot takes 5 times longer to boot, with no DirectX 12 support or windows store/modern app support, etc - but I'm sure you don't care about such things.
    Anyway, driver support for older hardware is purely a manufacturers fault for not bothering to work on drivers, nothing to do with a O/S (win10, linux, etc).

    Also funny you think Windows 7 just works? Fresh with no 3rd party drivers required? The amount of in-built driver support for Windows 10 without requiring to load 3rd party drivers is actually impressive and blows Windows 7 out of the water when loading fresh, even older gear - so if it's still not supported it must be very very old and non-mainstream, again probably why the manufacturer never bothered to provide updated drivers, which is hardly the operating system's fault.

    As for forced updates, app suggestions, cortana, UI look etc in Windows 10 - all easily disabled or changed in 30 seconds, so they really are a non-issue to argue about. Personal privacy you can take certain steps to mitigate a lot of it, but if you are really worried about it you shouldn't really be using the Internet in general.

    The older Windows 7 gets, the less support it will receive from manufacturers, developers and even Microsoft themselves - I would start working with how to change/live with the new O/S rather than cling to the old. All new gear from Dell/HP/Lenovo, etc only come preloaded with Windows 10 and do not provide an O/S downgrade, drivers or support for Windows 7 any more on their websites by the way.

    Edit: also your poll. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  14. OP
    OP
    Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

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    Have you taken a stopwatch to it ? the difference is measured in seconds. < 10 seconds difference.


    in 2009, manufacturer would make drivers for their hardware, even the older stuff say from 2006 onwards. Even today drivers for new hardware have win7 drivers. I hope you never are in the predicament of having hardware or software that only works on older OS's if you think newer = better.


    So average user goes home, puts new pc on desk and loads up. Are they going to know you can turn all this garbage off ? and without changing registry settings >? All the misleading things M$ have put in here is just downright wrong.


    Yeah, the older it gets less new support. MEH, i got a 6700k for a reason over the 7700k, I don't want Win10. Quite frankly, there is no need for win10. You can have an old Core2Duo and have movies, tv shows, word processing and all that good stuff going, the only thing that you need new stuff for is games, and well, just get a new GPU, stick with the older CPU, throw in a bit more ram and overclock the cpu a bit when needed down the line. ( winxp supports GTX 9*0 cards )

    And what about raw processing power for those who do rendering ect: ? grab a 10 core Sandy bridge e5 2680 V2 for $200 and be done with it :)

    Or older, windows XP is supported by sandy/ivy processors.
     
  15. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    You obviously don't use computers to make money for a living if you think that is even a remotely viable or even optimal solution for people who "do rendering etc".

    /me summons elvis

    For one - These are a thing - and Elvis probably needs more. Yes, 56 Real Cores, and its not even close to enough.
     
  16. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    Wow, that's brutal - I had no idea about it.


    Yeah I done goofed on the end date for win7.


    Well, when enough people speak out, they do change things - thats why metro stopped existing, or at least got pushed to the background.


    The problem with that is for novice-medium users. They don't see it as a hidden scroll-bar, they see it as some weird dot up in the upper-right corner. Regardless, I don't mind the tiny amount of missing space, it's easier to grab the scrollbar when itt's actually there -- same reason I dislike autohiding taskbars... they're dumb.


    I'm not even sure about *this*. The various reports I've seen say some games are faster, some are slower. Not sure why it'd make a difference unless that's *all* you're using that machine for.
     
  17. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    I don't know what that is. Was this since Windows 10, or previously?
     
  18. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    Metro was the secondary interface in Win8/8.1 that they also forced you to use instead of a start menu, as well as putting their 'apps' in there with no taskbar. It was widely reviled.
     
  19. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    At that stage, they still needed to get people to move from Win7 to Win8. Those on Win10 don't need to be convinced to do anything. They are a "captive audience" and they do not need to be placated or encouraged or anything at all. They just have to suck it up.
     
  20. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    UWP and Windows S are still a thing. And infinitely more secure by nature.

    Unlikely to be seen in mass computer rollout simply due to the vast difference in software available outside of the Windows Store vs in it.
     

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