HDD prices

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by Madengineer, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    11,465
    Yeah, so it's tried and true proven tech with a second life to sweat the asset dry. Kinda like turning your old pc into a 'server'.

    All the tech that goes into making a flash chip only has to be of fine tolerances for a few hours. Then the product is a largely inert lump of material where the precision mostly stops mattering. Get it right once and it's fine. Yes, I know nothing's perfect.

    A HDD has to be high-precision for years while suffering mechanical wear and tear.
    It has to put that mechanical read head on that spinning vibrating disc to within micrometers of target 99.9999% of the time billions of times.

    Not cutting edge?
     
  2. Butcher9_9

    Butcher9_9 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Perth , St James
    More a technical feat than cutting edge when compared to SSDs. If it was not for Price/TB ratio being better with HDDs they would be 99.99% dead. HDD are slower, larger physically, Store less data, more easily damaged and in many cases draw more power than SSDs.

    Again they are the cutting edge crossbow in a world full of firearms. Yes it might be a technical marvel that they work as well as they do but that does not change anything.


    PS, I have a tonne of HDDs (~60 currently in use) so I don't have anything against using them, does not mean I would not swap them for SSDs if pricing would allow.
     
  3. dexx

    dexx Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,182
    Location:
    Beeliar, Perth
    My whine is that, even though capacities continuously improve, price per TB doesnt drop like it use to.
    In 1993 i bought a 270MB drive for around $300. A few years later i bought a 3000MB drive for about the same. And so it continued - capacity increasing ten fold every few years and the cost dropping ten fold.
    That was until 1000GB drives became the norm. Since then, price hasnt fallen much. I understand the technology is plateauing. But i'd expect today's 16TB drives to cost around $300 if the trend had continued.
     
    cvidler likes this.
  4. Sledge

    Sledge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,122
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Err.. no, HDDs store MORE data
     
  5. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    15,603
    Location:
    Canberra
    to use your metric SSDs aren't cutting edge either. they're just nth generation IC's, IC's that date back to the 50's (ironically about the same time as HDDs).
     
  6. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    15,603
    Location:
    Canberra
    I'd love that right about now. need to replace a bunch of 4TB's which are still working, but not capacious enough any more.
     
  7. Butcher9_9

    Butcher9_9 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Perth , St James
    Really? I have not seen HDDs over 16TB (3.5") , Samsung released a 30TB SSD in 2018 (2.5") https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...Product_Brief_Smasung_PM1643_SAS_SSD_1805.pdf and there are 3.5" SSDs that fit 100TB https://nimbusdata.com/products/exadrive-platform/scalable-ssds/ . Might have to sell your Car to buy one but that is another story (I did say HDDs win on $/TB). Even if you want to talk about readily available items, I know HPE sells a ~15TB Drive for their standard proliant server https://ssd.hpe.com/recommendations (sort by capacity) 2.5" , Pure storage uses 15TB drives as well but I think they are PCIE ( 5PB in 9U that is crazy)

    Proof is in the pudding, there is a reason HDD sales have fallen 50% in 5 years and its not because no one like cutting edge hardware.

    Also technically HDDs came out in 1956-7 (IBM) and Flash was first produced in the 1987 (Toshiba) so its at least 30 years newer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  8. Sledge

    Sledge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,122
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Well.... i assumed we were talking about consumer level hardware here....
     
  9. terrastrife

    terrastrife Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    18,818
    Location:
    ADL/SA The Monopoly State
    Just a heads up if you're buying, 2-6TB WD Reds are now SMR.
     
  10. Azzan

    Azzan Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Location:
    Melbourne
    wat's SMR? Social Media Restriction? Sex Maturity Rating?
     
  11. Sledge

    Sledge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,122
    Location:
    Adelaide
    terrastrife likes this.
  12. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    45,675
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I assume you're talking consumer purchasing there. Data centre and cloud vendors are buying spindle drives faster than manufacturers can make them.

    Cherry picking a unicorn isn't the same as what's going on in the real world. Large scale data storage is still happening on spindle. There will be a time when that changes to SSD, but it won't happen this calendar year.
     
  13. flain

    flain Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,999
    Location:
    Sydney
    I still find it rather annoying that drives in USB enclosures are significantly cheaper than naked drives. I've heard all the arguments on bulk buying power of the companies making the USB drives but still doesn't make a lot of sense to me when the price gap is so huge.

    Then when they go and activate an extra pin on the connector that prevents you using the drive on a standard SATA port, unless you put sticky tape over it.. yeah doesn't seem shady at all lol
     
  14. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    15,603
    Location:
    Canberra
    that IS a standard SATA port. and if it's a problem for you, means you've got a old/non-standard power supply/adapter cable.

    yes it was changed, but it's not just manufacturers doing it to make shucking drives difficult, the 3.3v rail was removed when the standard changed to SATA (ironically) version 3.3 in 2016.

    and it's easy to fix. remove the orange wire from your power cables, or try and tape up the pin. because nothing ever used 3.3v (which is why it was removed from the standard) taking the orange wire out will harm nothing.
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    45,675
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The annoyance there too is that if you shuck a USB drive, chances are you'll void the warranty (unless you can reassemble it flawlessly).

    But PC users have been riding the wave of mainstream consumerism for 30 years now, and that time is coming to an end. Welcome to the land of phones, tablets, and low end wifi/usb gizmos. Putting a few TB of backup space at home outside of a single removable disk now puts you firmly in the "business" category, which means pricing to match.

    Wanting to customise and control your home computing environment is making all of us very much NOT the norm any more.
     
  16. Butcher9_9

    Butcher9_9 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Perth , St James
    PC has tanked hard, Data Center up a bit and the rest about the same.
    [​IMG]


    As for the Unicorn thing, sure but I had never said consumer grade just that SSDs come in larger capacities. The only reason SSDs are not large is because they are too expensive which was my whole point, HDDs only exist because they are cheaper not because they are in any way superior to SSDs. If flash memory dropped in price 90% I have no doubt that SSD capacities would sky rocket and HDD would die, HDDs are limited in capacity by the Technology, SSDs are limited by economics.
     
    BurningFeetMan likes this.
  17. flain

    flain Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,999
    Location:
    Sydney
    Why does the drive refuse to work with the pin connected? If the drive doesn't use 3.3v then it shouldn't it be a blank pin on the drive side? Am i missing something here?
     
  18. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    45,675
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Which is what I said. Backblaze hit 1 extabyte under management. Azure/AWS/Google all scrambling to put more stuff in with COVID19. These folks can't ship enough tin fast enough to keep up with demand.

    Home and SMB users, meanwhile, are doing just fine with their 512GB SSDs. Storing a bunch of word docs and watching YouTube isn't pushing data storage requirements much further than those limits.

    Well duh. The split second something is cheaper (for the same or better quality), large scale users will switch wholesale. Not even a question. Storage isn't exempt from that.

    You can make a unicorn SSD that holds 32TB. You can make a unicorn spindle drive that holds 32TB (it probably won't fit in a 3.5" form factor, but you could make one - just keep adding platters). But the real world scenario isn't cherry picking at hypotheticals. It's about what people can buy and install today at scale.

    And like literally everything in tech history, that will change too. Nothing is set in stone, tech changes daily, and what we're using in 2021 or 2031 will be very different to what we're using in 2020.

    But here and now in 2020, the fact remains that large scale operations are using spindle. Yes, because it's cheaper. Precisely because it's cheaper. And they're all waiting with baited breath for SSD to dip even 1% cheaper per TB, and then the tidal wave will follow.
     
  19. Butcher9_9

    Butcher9_9 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Perth , St James
    I think you might have missed the beginning of this chain. My whole point was that HDDs are not really cutting edge technology not that they don't currently have a place in the market (Like I said I have 60 and only 2 SSDs) . They are a technical marvel for a mechanical system but not cutting edge relative to SSDs.

    As for extra large HDD, well yeah but SSDs fit all of that space into a standard 2.5" or 3.5" size. The only reason they are unicorn products is they are like $20K+ per drive not because they are hard to make.
     
  20. Spark64

    Spark64 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    MADelaide SA 5125
    How big would the capacity be if they built a new hard drive in Full Height 5.25 inch form factor SATA drive?

    PS: the new WD 18Tb and 20Tb drives are Shingled.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: