Homebrew.

Discussion in 'Geek Grog & Homebrew' started by Vindaloo, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. vortex

    vortex Member

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    Ahh, the "its not broken, I'm not going to fix it" thing :)

    FWIW I put those numbers into the MrMalty yeast pitching rate calculator, and for 20L of 1.064 wort is suggests using 1.2 11g packs of yeast - it's always better to err on the side of overpitching than underpitching, and if you don't hydrate (and you should) you'll get plenty of cell death when pitching, so you may as well just pitch two packs. Because why not.

    Olive Oil has been disproven IIRC. Spend the money and get an o2 setup :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  2. anc001

    anc001 Member

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    Seems like a lot of caso4, not knowing anything about your water.
     
  3. scon

    scon Member

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    Yeah, I'll eventually get an 02 setup but I've just moved to kegs and a serving fridge so I'll wait a while before dumping yet another expense on the CFO.

    As far as water additions - 5g is too much for Gypsum (CaSO4)?

    I just plugged some numbers into the Water Profile tool in Beersmith and they're saying to use much much more than that - 18g with 11g of Epsom Salt (MgSO4) if I were trying to Burtonise my water. Sounds excessive, maybe I'm using the calculator wrong.
     
  4. anc001

    anc001 Member

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    See how it tastes when its done. It's doubtful to cause problems.

    A lot of brewers have come around to the position that water adjustment by salt addition is rarely needed.

    There is/was a trend to try to emmulate the exact mineral profile of famous waters, Dublin, Burton, Plzen etc.

    Unless your water is quite alkaline it won't be an issue, and even then only for certain styles.

    Worry more about sourcing good water (rainwater, filtered, RO) than adding salts.

    JMO
     
  5. vortex

    vortex Member

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    I wouldn't burtonise. Burton breweries don't even burtonise these days :) Coopers do for their Pale Ale and IMO it's very minerally to me. If you're intending this to be an American pale ale, definately don't burtonise.

    My approach to water chemistry has been trial-and-error, because the chemistry is over my head, but I proceeded anyway with the understanding it was likely I may ruin entire batches. I did a lot of research on various peoples batch sizes and their gypsum addition sizes, and picked a similar number and went with it. My results have been good, to the point of winning best of show with an IPA last year, with one beer I experimented with. So, take what I say with a grain of salt - it's just what has worked for me, where you are WILL be different. FWIW Adelaide water is actually pretty good once the copious amounts of chlorine, chloromine etc are filtered out. MV Beer for example just use straight tap water which is carbon filtered, with minerals added back.

    Firstly, I filter all my water properly. Honestly filtering is probably more important than what, or how much, minerals are being added to each batch. I bought a two stage under-sink filter system and 2 micron prefilter and a 0.5 (or could be 0.2?) micron carbon filter. The water that comes out of this is crystal clear with no odour or flavour. Stark difference to the tap next to it which is unfiltered. This has really helped the beers i've brewed beer with it and no other mineral additions; they all turned out 'pretty good' (technical description). For people in Adelaide, PuraTap is crap. It doesn't remove all the off flavours or odours from the water - don't get those. Bunnings sell better filters for a similar price (which is what I use!) and they are a standard size which can be purchased anywhere, unlike the PuraTap system.

    I brew 40L batches. For my experiments I started with my house IPA recipe (the BOS beer above) and based on the research I did I was seeing people add around 10g of Gypsum to the mash and 10g to the boil, adjusted to the size batches I was brewing. Knowing their base water was definately different to mine, I started with 5g in each mash and boil. The resulting beer turned out quite well, the hops did seem to pop a little (though that is only anecdotal). Upped it to 7.5g in each next batch. Didn't hurt at all. 3rd batch, upped to 10g in each mash and boil. Recipe was modified slightly to add some Citra and it took out Best of Show (44pts avg) - so again it may have been the Citra (which is something of a crowd pleaser) or the gypsum which really helped.

    Most of that probably wasn't very helpful, really.

    TL;DR: Don't burtonise an American style. Carbon filter your water. 5g gypsum is probably fine in an APA.
     
  6. mmBax

    mmBax Member

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    Gypsum? As in, clay breaker?

    I'm kind of glad that I'm not too fussed about water yet!
     
  7. vortex

    vortex Member

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    Yes, however you'd source food-grade stuff from a homebrew shop.
     
  8. mmBax

    mmBax Member

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    What's actually involved in the initial test? Can it be done at home or does it need to be sent away to a specialised shop?

    Ph and Hardness I can do myself at home, but I could probably ask a mate (water quality tester) to run some tests for me.
     
  9. aXis

    aXis Member

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    I think you have to be pretty keen to make big adjustments in water chemistry. Personally I just carbon filter and add pH 5.2 adjuster, very easy and foolproof really.
     
  10. anc001

    anc001 Member

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    And change your carbon filter, don't rely on an old one to clear up your water.

    I had a subtle persistent medicinal note in all my beera until I started adding campden tablets to all my water (including starsan and washup water) as a backup for the Chloramines. Have not noticed it one since.
     
  11. mmBax

    mmBax Member

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    I'm definitely a long way off, just curious mainly. I'm still brewing extracts and partials. I'd switch to all grain long before I started making water adjustments.

    Having said that, the latest brew was with bottled water and it's leaps ahead of standard tap water.

    Also just noticed coopers have another recipe of the month out now. Steam Beer, or Californian Common.

    1.7kg Coopers Real Ale
    x2 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt
    100g Dark Crystal Malt grain
    25g US Northern Brewer Hops
    2 x 11.5g S-23 Lager yeast
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  12. scon

    scon Member

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    Interesting. I'll probably start with 5g then.

    Canberra water is much softer than Adelaide, much much softer. Our water is of very good quality though, I don't think there's any need to filter it. I was planning on brewing this weekend but we're getting a pig carcass delivered and I'll have to butcher that and prepare it for charcuterie so I don't know if I'll get time.

    Hmm... perhaps I could do an extra extra long mash, say 9 hours while I'm at work...
     
  13. scon

    scon Member

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    So I did something a little silly this morning.

    Went down to the brew shed first thing in the morning to innoculate my saison with yeast and freaked out because I couldn't find it anywhere. So I chucked in some Nottingham that I had in the fridge and put it into my 17C fermenting fridge.

    Then I went back up to the house and found that I'd put the pack of Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast in the fridge. Soo I put that into the same fermenter and put it into another fridge (this one is currently unpowered) where I expect the heat to be about 22C.

    So - I don't see myself having issues with attenuation for this brew, but is the Nottingham going to throw off wierd flavours at that temperature or will the Saison yeast out compete it at those temps. Anyways, time will tell and I don't doubt that I'll get beer out of it.
     
  14. spaced1

    spaced1 Member

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    The two yeasts will compete. Saison yeast will work fine at lower temperatures (e.g. 19degrees) so I'd try and keep it around there. Ross the brewer at bacchus brewing said his saison fermented fine at that temperature. Bringing it up in temperature only created more fusels.
     
  15. anc001

    anc001 Member

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    Neither yeast will have a problem at either temp IMHO. I haven't tried the dry yeast, but 3711 ferments really cleanly up until at least 30 if there are plenty of yeast there.

    Mixing yeast strains is a good idea to create flavour complexity I reckon.
     
  16. aXis

    aXis Member

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    True, but as mentioned above two yeast in a fermenter will compete and one will generally win out. To get decent result you have to split the batch, ferment each seperately with a differnt yeast, and then blend back again.

    I have a microbrewer mate who does this and it works a treat.
     
  17. anc001

    anc001 Member

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    Good tip, cheers.
     
  18. vortex

    vortex Member

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    Thanks for coming to the SABC meeting last night Alex, that Belgian was certainly very, um, belgian! :)

    Sorry, I typically avoid belgians, but that one had none of the things I hate about most of them - being the peppery esters and higher alcohols (i seem to be sensitive to them...). I did get a phenol of some kind on the nose, but given what it is (and the fact I'm not familiar with the style) I can't say it was bad.

    I was going to say to you that plenty of folks have mills, and would have been happy to mill that grain for you should you have accepted it! :)
     
  19. scon

    scon Member

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    To be honest, this is what I'm actually hoping for. I'm hoping that the Saison yeast outcompetes the Nottingham, and I'm pretty sure it will. Anyway, krausen has formed and it's looking like a pretty vigorous ferment, will let you guys know in about 2 weeks.
     
  20. Quadbox

    Quadbox Member

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    the other technique that gets used pretty often is to ferment entirely out with the lower attenuating yeast, 2/3 or more of the way through pitch the higher attenuator... That's how people tend to use Brett, for example, because it's much slower fermenting but attenuates massively more than saccharomyces. By that point the first yeast is starting to give up the ghost, and the higher attenuating strain can take over without being out-competed

    On that topic in fact, i've got two new brewing books on order as part of a larger bookdepository order I put in... Chris White's "Yeast", and jamil zanershef's "Brewing classic styles". Looking forward to having both in the collection immensely :)

    EDIT - Incidentally, as I understand it, this is the technique Orval use... ferment out entirely with their sacc strain, rack, then add brett and let it at it
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013

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