How does Apple hardware hold its value so well?

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by Myne_h, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Macbook Pro
    https://support.apple.com/kb/sp579?locale=en_US

    IBM T500
    https://support.lenovo.com/au/en/solutions/pd001301
    I use a similar vintage IBM T500 as a daily driver for programming, was top of the range model in its day, cost me $20 9mths ago + $150 for SSD and new battery + MAX out memory., only difference is Video is ATi not Nvidia, but I disabled external video and only use Intel for longer battery life.

    PS Also if I need a hammer I can use it to bang nails into walls. ;)
     
  2. r4n

    r4n Member

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    Valid point, but not the point OP made.

    OP specifically stated "I could buy 2 base model devices for the same money"

    There is a MASSIVE difference between the build quality of low end machines vs the flagships. If people take anything from this thread it should be, a second hand enterprise grade machine/high end laptop is a MUCH better buy than a brand new $300 craptop. I bought my wife a $300 Lenovo T430S because she prefers windows. It came with a 120GB SSD and 8GB of ram. A mini dock set me back $50 with a second PSU, so she can use it as a desktop as well. It will probably last her most of a decade.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  3. Zee

    Zee Member

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    I can buy several Camry's for the price of a BMW 5 series. Depends what you're looking for. I'm happy to pay the premium for a Mac notebook, and do generally prefer OSX over WIndows for everything (bar games) anyway.

    I'm still happily using my 2014 Mac Air, generally used for 4-10hrs/day, and it is still getting 12 hours general use on it's battery.

    Z...
     
  4. alexc

    alexc Member

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    Sure, but thats not really the point being made here.

    Apple isn't alone in being the BMW of the computer world. There are other quality models from other manufacturers, that retails at around the same as a decent MacBook Pro for instance.

    It's the used values that are in question - the Apple brand keeps used Apple hardware prices high, whilst it seems used PC hardware plunges in value.

    It could be because once you get in used PC territory you are up against cheap new PCs with warranties. Apple doesn't have a cheap new competitor in the used market.

    BMW's however do lose a huge chunk of value when used for exactly that reason - they are competing against cheap new cars.
     
  5. Hater

    Hater Member

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    I daresay after 10 or so years, used Camry prices start to be the same as used BMW prices anyway... The BMW's are even cheaper if the cars haven't been maintained properly...

    That said, I do currently own a 2011 MacBook Pro and next to it my 2012 HP ProBook hack - The ProBook is faster, has a way better screen and is worth half the price of the MacBook, but the MacBook has lots of little "niceties" like sideways scrolling on the trackpad, a nicer enclosure, the charger is nifty etc
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  6. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    2012 Mac Mini's are the best bang for buck in my experience. My own Mac Mini handles everything I throw at it with ease, a very nice little machine that's expandable - Unlike the current generation of Mac Mini's.
     
  7. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Yeah, fair call. I think it's a case of t still being desirable. In that sense, it makes for a "fair" investment, especially if you try to keep up to date and buy new every 2-3 years. It means you get a fair chunk of cash back for your old Mac, especially if you keep it in good nick.

    Z...
     
  8. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm running a Dell Vostro 3560 that's over 5 years old. I could quote you word for word here - "fantastic, quick, and great for everything but games", although it actually does play games fine (1080p screen, decent framerates on modern games still). It cold boots in under 10 seconds, and runs every bit of software I need. I have zero incentive to upgrade it for either work or personal use.

    And yet, if I were to sell it, I'd get a fraction of the price it cost.

    There's a myth that Apple hardware holds performance better than PC hardware. Since Apple went x86, it's all the same stuff inside. The differences are purely down to perception by the target audience. Remember too that many Mac users like macOS. In the Wintel world, you've got a hell of a lot of choice and competition around where to buy (new and second hand). Apple's artificial limitation on what hardware runs macOS keeps second hand equipment in high value.

    There's a very, very good reason Apple won't allow clone hardware. Competition is bad for profits.

    Poor analogy here. macOS only runs on one type of hardware (legally/easily, I'm ignoring Hackintoshes because they're not consumer items for regular people). If you want macOS, there is no low cost option available to you, and the market is artificially constrained.

    Your Camry/BMW analogy assumes the items purchased are doing the same thing. If someone doesn't want to run Windows, and genuinely prefers macOS, they have exactly one vendor that satisfies their requirement. From there, they can either buy overpriced current gen / new hardware, or second hand hardware in a market where there's high demand and low supply, again forcing prices upward.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  9. everybodies

    everybodies New Member

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    1. Quality control. the Mac can only be built by one company, unlike Window$ computers.
    2. MacOSX is from Unix family, specifically BSD. It is BSD based because if it was linux based the licensing stipulates source code would have to be revealed. this gives it reliability and stability that windows can only dream of
    3. they are expensive to buy new thus used machines are a viable option
    4. they tend to outlast windows machines because of 1 and 2 combined

    the common misconception is that they are overpriced status symbols but this opinion tends to be shared by people who have never owned a Mac computer so this point of view is kinda ignorant. Once you buy and use an Apple computer you understand where the extra cost has gone into and dont mind paying for it.
     
  10. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Agreed - though, as pointed out above, there are premium Windows machines out there, too. They don't seem to hold value anywhere near as well, so brand name, at the least, has something to do with it.
     
  11. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    1. OSX is no better than any other OS for security it was owned in Vegas at defcom faster than a Windows a few years back. Fact... software has flaws... operating systems have so many moving parts attack vectors exist on all platforms.

    2. Apple hardware is the same as all other manufactures, yes it looks nice but technically it is not better.

    3. Apple products are designed and marketed to make you feel emotional about your choice, this emotion creates desire, the desire to own Apple is what makes the 2nd hand market strong. Same for all 2nd hand goods only someone else' desire for the product gives it value.

    There is no argument you can have at a logical level that can prove that OSX is better than any other OS, in fact I can have the opposite I can tell you why Linux is 1000x better than OSX and Windows, its Open and its FREE as in freedom, no proprietary lock in system can be that.

    No Macbook Pro doesn't get better with age, but like others here I don't think we need to replace our hardware every 2-3 years, my productivity tools run just fine on my T500 (9 year old laptop) and my 2600K Desktop (7 year old).

    Lastly all OSs available today can be secure, they also do the same tasks, its only the stupid meatbag using the devices that make them insecure or non-productive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017 at 8:35 AM
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  12. everybodies

    everybodies New Member

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    I dont feel emotional about my MacBook Air, not one bit, but after 2 years it's working 100% exactly as the day i bought it. i used to run linux on a Vaio laptop, when shopping around for a new laptop the Mac Genius dropped into a bash shell and my jaw dropped to the floor - mainly due to my ignorance, that was the selling point for me, i just bought it on the spot.

    yea, linux is cool, but it suffers from too much freedom, i just dont want to spend the best part of a weekend configuring everything, and then tweaking VNC because performance from a vanilla install is shocking, on a mac remote desktop is just two clicks away with outstanding performance. So yea, linux is awesome because you can configure everything, but the downside of this is that YOU HAVE TO configure everything lol.

    windows is made by retards for retards, you might disagree, but i am convinced of this. Who came up with the idea of windows installing shite on it's own, like candy saga and other ridiculous crap, and who approved that? - oh yea, that's a brilliant idea, lets implement it. Or the idea to keep all settings in one file, registry, that's retarded simply. how many times have you shut down a PC because it can not eject a USB drive due to retardation? Or spending an hour or two trying to get windows to sleep properly - pathetic.

    Zee. you make a valid point about Windows Xeon workstations, i have no answer.
     
  13. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    Never had any of the above issues, though windows 8 and 10 are both garbage m$haft os’ that do install shit on there own (updates), it’s a reason why I’am still using windows 7.
     
  14. Perko

    Perko Member

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    Does no one else see the irony in Apple people using the $ sign in Microsoft and Windows?

    Honestly everybodies, we've been through these arguments ad nauseum, there always seems to be some newbie rolling up to the latest thread, pitching their emotive opinions based on the experience of half a dozen or less machines as absolute fact. Maybe have a look at what a few of the guys in this thread work with on a daily basis.

    News flash, Apple machines are desirable, yet not particularly popular in the scheme of the whole new PC market, and expensive new. The second hand market is literally a market in the purest form. It's just supply and demand, most people would argue that it's supply constraint, I'm guessing that Apple people will have a different take.

    I don't think that you're a "retard" though, despite Linux and Windows configuration clearly being beyond you.
     
  15. power

    power Member

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    they are tech as a fashion accessory.
     
  16. everybodies

    everybodies New Member

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    thanks for proving my point. made by retards for retards.
    congratulations on configuring your window$ workstation!!

    "Maybe have a look at what a few of the guys in this thread work with on a daily basis."
    great point, i will do that lol that makes all the difference, thank you for your meaningless contribution to the world
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017 at 7:11 PM
  17. Perko

    Perko Member

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    I'm not the one trying to make a market effect out to be more than it is because I'm justifying my consumerism/fanboism/whatever. Everyone here knows that like PCs, >90% of Macs are effectively just web browsers. The Macs are just expensive ones. It's all about the form and prestige, not the function to the bulk of people, that's not a misconception in the slightest.

    The only thing meaningless is your indoctrinated diatribe to the thread question.
     
  18. everybodies

    everybodies New Member

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    whatever. not even going to bother reading your tripe.

    its fkn amazing how threads like this, clearly with Apple in subject, attract idiot windows trolls like you, you see this over and over again
     
  19. olie

    olie Member

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    I still run a mid 2010 15" Macbook pro as my main laptop, it has lived in Windows 7/8/8.1/10 most of the time.

    It would have done 1000's of hours at 100% CPU rendering out CAD/Videos/Photoshop pano's.

    In the same time I have also had:
    1x HP something - battery failed
    2x i7 Surface Pro 3's - both failed (separate issues) mobo/battery iirc
    1x Surface Pro 4 - failed screen
     
  20. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    So what your saying is your Macbook Pro has a better battery then the ones you listed? Well that may be true for older Macbook Pros but do a google on Macbook Pro battery issues for models after 2012.. My IBM T500 original 6 cell battery still works after 10 years, replaced with a 9 cell for longer no power usage.

    With that many battery failures I would suggest reading up on how to maintain a lithium battery for maximum life cycle.

    https://www.macbookproslow.com/ <- a whole site dedicated to fixing running issues with Macbook Pro. All Software/OS's have issues programmers are human thus their code is erroneous.

    https://www.macbookproslow.com/fix-battery-issues/
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017 at 8:30 AM

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