Ice Lake / Sunny Cove Discussion

Discussion in 'Intel x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by chainbolt, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Yes, They're still ahead of ancient Zen+ APU's with a virtually non existent new Ice lake.. That's not exactly a kick in the balls for AMD though. Especially with Renoir likely launching at CES in a week or so - I don't expect much from Renoir on the GPU front, especially if it doesn't hit the ground with LPDDR4 support, but we'll see. One thing it should have is CPU performance and availability.


    I think you're over estimating how much faster Tigerlake will be over Icelake. Those leaks you linked are just spec and spec rate. They're really only indicators of performance @ Fmax. Mobile is all about perf/watt.
     
  2. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

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    If Renoir doesn't support LPDDR4-3000 CL15 at a minimum they're just handicapping themselves severely, we know how much Zen loves fast RAM (up to the sweet spot), throw in iGPU and surely its a must-have design goal

    Couldn't really believe how the AMD surface laptop comes out of the gate with DDR4-2400. I mean FFS its not even low powered, why gimp yourself.

    I have no means to verify but I wouldn't bet on Intel's manufacturing woes continuing infinitely
     
  3. Kurnous

    Kurnous Member

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    That was hugely disappointing, I was honestly shocked. A 4 core Zen CPU and iGPU must surely be constrained by bandwidth with a dual channel Memory controller. Even DDR4-3600 is a 50% uplift in bandwidth and would help the iGPU significantly. LPDDR4 would have also helped battery life a little as well.

    There are plenty of people that are sidestepping the 15" AMD model by buying the Ice Lake 'business' model for only a few hundred more $.

    Maybe in pure CPU performance you'd be right but even if it is slighly more than Ice Lake that is still a good lead in IPC vs Zen 2. The real battle will be with the iGPU. AMD is still using 10-12 CU VEGA, whilst the already decent Intel GEN11 will be upgraded significantly to the new Xe architecture. For a tablet/ultra portable I would prefer 4 faster cores and significantly faster iGPU over 8 cores.
     
  4. Kurnous

    Kurnous Member

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    Well, things are heating up in this space! AMD with a compelling mobile chip https://www.anandtech.com/show/1532...-apus-7nm-8core-on-both-15w-and-45w-coming-q1

    Interesting that this processor vs Ice Lake i7-1065G7 is +4% Single Thread +90% Multi-thread and 28% IGP however this Zen 2 chip is clocked at 4.2GHz vs Ice Lake 3.8GHz which suggests an IPC lead of ~6% by Intel.

    How long before Intel responds with Tiger Lake? https://www.windowscentral.com/intel-announces-tiger-lake-processors-ces-2020

    "Available to manufacturers this summer" which to me translates to a late 3rd Quarter this year in actual physically available products.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  5. SKITZ0_000

    SKITZ0_000 Member

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    That's assuming the AMD CPU actually managed to boost and maintain 4.2 :Pirate:
     
  6. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Which means it might be fighting a Renoir refresh - question is, Will AMD fight Xe with Navi at this time. Or not bother with the expensive of a whole new tape out.

    It will be interesting first to see just how Xe performs as an architecture. This "2x" business means nothing without more detail.. Are their any disclaimer footnotes for the CES presentation?
     
  7. Kurnous

    Kurnous Member

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    Well we 'know' that the Xe will have 96EU's up from 64 so that is a 50% uplift. Then you could assume that there is a further IPC uplift due to the change from GEN11 to Xe. IF the 2x rumour is true that would represent a 62% lead on Ryzen 4000 GPU. That is huge and will lead to some
    I think AMD will be behind by around a quarter with their Zen 3 mobile APU. Tiger Lake will be in products for 'Holiday' 2020. Zen 3 mobile APU will land sometime Q1 2021, this sort of mimics how Icelake started appearing in October/November and how Ryzen 4000 will be available in products this/next month.

    Interestingly Tigerlake is set to increase frequency and IPC so the single thread performance will likely be around 20% better than Ryzen 4000. I would honestly much prefer 4 superior thread to 8 inferior with the addition of a better iGPU.

    One would think AMD's next iteration would have to include NAVI/ RDNA2 to compete. I can't see why not since they will be supplying similar products to Microsoft/Sony for their consoles at the end of the year.

    Some more information in this article

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/15380/i-ran-off-with-intels-tiger-lake-wafer-who-wants-a-die-shot
     
  8. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

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    How much do intel drivers still suck for gaming, and how much does it matter these days? (honest question). 25% better raw power is no good if tonnes of games crash or bug out or the better drivers simply eliminate the raw advantage.
     
  9. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Performance/watt , Available Mem Bandwidth, and color compression is re big factors here. If the 2x Figure is some theoretical TFlop number or something , then it's all but meaningless. AMD did the unthinkable and Dropped CU's from 11 down to 8 and clocked them higher with Renoir. . Sounds crazy, but were still able to get a reasonable performance uplift (claimed )

    Honestly don't know what to expect from the Xe IGP - The demo's of thre discrete version were terrible, and show it's a god awful state currently. They won't devour any meaningful performance expectations (Yet) , the 2x claim also at odd's with the earlier 4x Whiskylake claim (15w vs 25w) for firestrike/3dM11


    [/QUOTE]

    What makes you think the 4 thread TGL performance would be any better than 4 thread Zen 2? It's still all about performance/watt @ 4 threads in a 15w device , and Zen 2 may still hold an edge here. Tigerlake might boost high enough under literally 1 threaded loads to win Cinebench 1T benchmarks.. (though 20% is probably a stretch) , but if the per/core power is too high at these clocks (like it well and truly is with Icelake) then it won't matter once you pile on even a modest # of threads. (forcing clocks to drop)
     

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