Intel 240GB 520-series SandForce SSD

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by Agg, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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  2. IzzehO

    IzzehO Member

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    Surely they can't keep bragging rights for reliable SSDs and then turn around and sell the same junk everyone else is? :S
     
  3. Alf928

    Alf928 Member

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    Read this review then: Anandtech
     
  4. ApathyGates

    ApathyGates Member

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    Thanks Agg - I'm about to pickup a SSD boot drive. Might spring for the best out there.

    *edit*
    I just checked the prices on auspcmarket and umart - the 520 series is cheaper than the 510? What's the go there folks?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  5. Reaper

    Reaper Member

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    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1815/1/

    I've highlighted the most exciting part.

    I think 2012 is now on track for mass affordable ssd.

    Probably why they are using SF. Because it's cheaper to use that than their own solution is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  6. shadowman

    shadowman Member

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    You know, the funny thing over the past couple of years, is when people ask me about what laptop to buy. My generic answer now is 'decent intel quad core, non-celeron cpu, as much ram as your budget, don't worry about the hard drive size'.

    People don't use their laptops much for storing lots of media (in my experience), so I reckon the laptop market is the best one to hit with SSDs, where storage isn't paramount. I think 60GB is probably too small, so around 120GB is probably the sweet spot for a majority of users. Average Joe's are never going to fill a 500GB drive on their laptop.

    People are trending more and more towards tablets that have 'instant on', and don't use a lot of battery. With Windows 8 on the horizon and Microsoft's desire to make it an 'instant on' OS, SSDs are going to shine in portable computers. I reckon your prediction is pretty spot on. I'd go as far to say that SSD's will be at the $1/GB price point by December.
     
  7. fileant

    fileant Member

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    25nm is much cheaper than 34 nm NAND

    Also I am suspicious of all the reports and stories on the internet about reliability of SSDs. As far as I can tell there were multiple faults with the firmware and drivers on the motherboard/CPU raid controllers. It could be that nobody had coded properly for sandforce and the newer PCIe Bus standards until late last year or at least a combination of faults on both sides.

    If this got disconnected randomly what would be the result, the disk now does not disappear when it detects an error, but given the report of no capacitors on it, is the data OK?

    The 320 has Caps, but some people are reporting it still fails and Intel canned it. You would think the disk would just have to chcek for the last commits, but maybe they found it was more complicated than that.

    Anyway I think Intel, Sandforce and all the resellers need to be more transparent. You can see the bug fixes in Intel RST, but there is no explanation on how they apply.

    The way Anandtech explained it it suspicious as well, it is akin to if ford and Mazda use a same factory to produce a car management chip that has a safety problem and ford find a fix, fix it and don't tell Mazda. There would be an outcry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  8. nowlan

    nowlan Member

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    It says that bugfixes can be incorporated back into oem firmware, but Intel have exclusivity on their tuning/optimizing.
     
  9. fileant

    fileant Member

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    No worries, I guess I just skimmed it.

    This is the sort of stuff he said though.

    Someone has found a BSOD report before day 1, lol. The guy seems pretty novice though and used IDE mode. It does suggest to me a fix is (at least partially) in the Intel drivers for AHCI and RAID... or at least they stop the BUS from sleeping as much or something. As I suspected.
    http://communities.intel.com/thread/27680?tstart=0

    I suppose my point is at $2 or $3 a gig you would at least want some confidence that the drive has some power loss protection, which it does not seem to. As the SSD is encrypted, compressed and not contiguous the risk is higher than using an old spinner that may only lose data from one or two sectors. SSD's are getting big now, so more data, more people will cry, so they need to spell out that you need to do this, this and this to ensure it will work well. i.e. Update MB firmware, drive firmware, drivers and don't hot swap it.

    Still, you need to backup both forms of drive I suppose. I was just hoping for more this year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  10. Reaper

    Reaper Member

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    I'm actually hoping to see something around the $0.60 / GB by year end. :)
     
  11. congoh

    congoh Member

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    I think that's feasible at really low end (vertex +) but who'd want to use it given its speed?

    Primary reason for jumping to 25nm was to save $$ at the expense of durability. I don't know how reliable they'll be with further cost cutting.
     
  12. fileant

    fileant Member

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    I think the durability thing is just a compromise to make use of more cells for consumer products, as generally we don't need them to last as much as they do. The 25nm uses less watts and better materials so would be longer lasting individually and cheaper to power. They did have trouble doing it so you may be right, but they have either got it now or will soon, Intel did say 25nm is more reliable.

    The 25nm will make for big price drops, but they will move all the old stock first.

    For CPU's many people want to pump proportionally more power into them as the nm shrinks and this is the problem. They actually are able to do this as Intel now put products from nuclear reactors into the silicon, but they degrade as people expect to go from 3.6 to 5GHz, rather than the old 3 to 3.2GHz or whatever.

    EDIT: yeah you are right endurance goes down with each shrink. It seems not enough to run a PVR for more than a few years now if you recorded a lot of TV, so they will have to replace NAND with something else. For a PC it seems fine though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  13. aznpsuazn

    aznpsuazn Member

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    Are these wasted if we put them on a Sata II board?
     
  14. Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

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    No. Most SSDs only just saturate a Sata 2 connection. I dont even think they've reached Sata 3 yet.
     
  15. fileant

    fileant Member

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    It depends, the sustained read will be locked to 250MB/s, you would have to look at the 4k random for a bunch of different drives which will be in the 25-40MB/s range. As well as this, if you want RAID, until Intel release Trim for RAID you would have to look at what drives perform well without trim, which is some Kingstons.

    Some people say the Samsung drives are the best for price/performance/stability, but I hate Samsung.
    There is also Corsair Performance Pro which seems pretty close to perfect with a Marvell controller, from memory Marvell have the least failure returns.
    If you were keeping SATA II though I would have a hard look at Kingston with Marvell and compare.

    The only selling point for Intel is that you get to use all the drives with the Intel Tools. Some of the reviewers say Intel is never going to want to compete on price.

    I am under the impression the 320's might be almost just as nice as long as you have an Intel RAID controller... but they cost the same or more. They have the bonus of caps, but there is the question of if they are actually doing much.

    I suspect the Thailand flood will make life hard until May which is from what I can tell is when prices might get normal again. The really good Intel drives don't come out until late this year, "King Crest" 25nm MLC HET (high endurance technology)... actually it says Q2... so April,May,June, if we are lucky... another article says Q3 and 20nm MLC NAND.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  16. terrastrife

    terrastrife Member

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    I'm still rocking my Samsung/jmicron SSD with 10 year warranty :D

    Need more space though >_<
     
  17. fileant

    fileant Member

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  18. AzzKikr

    AzzKikr Member

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  19. terrastrife

    terrastrife Member

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    retails have a 3.5" adapter, screws, sata cable, sata power adapter, etc
    and a big ass ugly sticker.
     
  20. fileant

    fileant Member

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    I think the warranty is different as well.

    http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-032510.htm

    I only looked for the 320 one the other day, but...
    Not a big deal, but retail is unconditional 5-year, OEM is 5-year "if you use it up, your bad".

    OEM has an attached conditions as well, you need to go through seller or system manufacturer for RMA, but I did not bother to look and I don't think they would enforce that if that condition was there. There to make ebay look more scarey.

    basically if you have a problem you chat to intel online, then fill this in I think...
    http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/res...port_faq/418144.htm#What is SWR? What is AWR?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012

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