Intermittent NBN Optical Issues

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by motas, Oct 12, 2019 at 1:44 PM.

  1. motas

    motas Member

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    Hey all,

    Hoping for some advice from some people a bit more knowledgeable in NBN.

    The first issue was our house didn't have a ADSL or NBN connection for no apparent reason, so after 6 months sorting that out I got a FTTP connection put in.

    Ever since then I've been having intermittent issues where the optical light goes red for an hour or so, the internet drops out, then after a while the optical comes back and half an hour later the internet does.

    Aussie Broadband say it isn't there problem and they can't do anything and book an NBN technician to come fix it. The NBN technician says it isn't there problem and they can't do anything, talk to Aussie Broadband.

    I seem to be in a loop.

    Anyone know what might be the problem, and how I can get someone to actually fix it?

    Thanks!
     
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

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    send me your address details and I'll look into it for you. do you know if there is an open ticket for the issue? if not your ISP will need to open a new one so I can progress it.
     
  3. Nobby6

    Nobby6 Member

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    ABB do not control the fibre, not any part of it, not even the NTD, so it is NBN's problem despite comments of useless lazy NBN @rseholes
    (I'm not going to use the world "tech" because that will be an insult to those who are techs)

    Make noises, sadly only ABB can convey this to useless NBN droids, they're the ones with the devices to check o/power losses and anomalies, not ABB.
    Could be a faulty unit, could be shoddy work at any point...

    One thing to try, is the optical connectors, ensure they are secure, the NTD has an inbuilt safety feature so that if you pull the connectors the optical side shuts down, if its poorly seated (or poorly made or not cleaned connectors) it is possible it is triggering this safety feature... maybe... but could be anything...
     
  4. OP
    OP
    motas

    motas Member

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    NBN tech said that it is most likely a programming issue since it is intermittent, and that usually a faulty fibre drops out completely.

    He replaced the connectors at both ends which he said improved the signal strength and might fix the problem (which it didn't). ABB lady seems to think it is a faulty NTD.
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

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    field techs have a fairly limited view of the world. that isn't their fault, but they're there to fix basic physical issues, so they have relatively little view of the network or knowledge of its higher operation. "likely a programming issue" is field tech speak for "I have no idea what it might be". leave it with me.

    Nobby - cool it a bit, your blood pressure will thank you.
     
  6. Nobby6

    Nobby6 Member

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    I've seen first hand too many times the uselessness of lazy NBN contractors to know most the shoddy it IS their fault.

    As for blood pressures... too late.... been high for 20 years [and no im not as smoker :) }
     
  7. caspian

    caspian Member

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    while it would be ideal if nobody made a mistake ever, the reality is you save that level of achievement for stuff like heart surgeons and airline pilots.

    if just occasionally - and that's all it is, very, very occasionally - a parcel goes missing in the post, or you get the wrong coffee, or a tech doesn't fix your internet connection the first time because the fault wasn't apparent at the time he attended - then that's life. as someone with firsthand and intimate view of the space the error rate is very, very small, and there are patterning and governance systems in place to address individuals who are an opportunity for improvement.
     
  8. ipv6ready

    ipv6ready Member

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    Not sure why the poorly paid nbn tech get so much hate.
     
  9. caspian

    caspian Member

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    it's a combination of never underestimating the wrath of a geek separated from their internet, combined with a trendy me-too bash.
     
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  10. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    I wouldn't go that far. When a tech comes out to rectify an issue, the issue needs to be rectified. If the tech doesn't have the knowledge, information or tools to rectify the issue - That's a real problem. It's comparable to a mechanic that doesn't know anything about a vehicle beyond opening the bonnet.

    Three times in twelve months I've come across ISP accounts being provisioned on line 'A' with NBN Co patching FTTN on line 'B', with the end result being an active sync on the wrong line with no internet.

    ISP blames NBN Co, as can be expected NBN Co blames ISP, and the customer is left with no internet for months. Furthermore, this isn't a lower tier ISP. Furthermore, this isn't a simple case of one mistake and everything's resolved in good time - This is a drawn out trail of shear incompetence.

    How about you quit blaming the customer for getting rightfully pissed off at the moronic level of service being offered and provide properly trained, knowledgeable techs in the field? Part of the problem is the fact that you have seperate techs for both ISP and NBN Co, it appears the ISP tech cannot inspect any infrastructure related to the NBN and the NBN tech cannot seem to knock on the front door of the premises in question and actually make sure the internet is working before leaving after apparently resolving the issue and it appears to be impossible to co-ordinate things so an NBN Co and an ISP tech both arrive at the same time to work together, communicate, and fully resolve the issue - The communication between wholesaler and service provider is beyond appalling.

    No one cares for the technical details, people just want the service they pay for to actually work and it appears the internal communications systems between ISP and NBN Co just aren't up to the task or have glaring weaknesses that no one's interested in resolving.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 10:54 PM
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  11. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I've had a chance to look at your service in more detail this morning. the issue is a fibre path issue causing a low optical signal level, which was **not** evident when the last tech attended, so I can't fault him for not being able to fix something he couldn't see. the provenance tests he ran at the time the job was booked off were fine. there is a remote possibility the issue may be with the optics inside the NTD but it's not a faulty NTD per se, and to my eye it looks potentially like a fibre pressure point, which is going to be in the cabling somewhere. that could also explain the intermittent issue.

    we'll only discover what the cause is 100% when the tech gets there with a power meter and an OTDR if need be. that may require an escalation to another tech, service tech don't carry those.
     
  12. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Further highlighting glaring issues with techs in the field. Not only do we have NBN Co vs ISP vs Telstra Techs, we also have different 'levels' of techs in the field and each time the issue isn't resolved another tech has to be sent out - Hopefully with the correct knowledge, tooling and customer service skills to isolate and rectify the problem - Otherwise the issue needs to be escalated again and in most cases it's hit and miss as to whether the tech that was unable to rectify the fault actually escalates the fault themselves or whether the customer has to ring their ISP 'once again' to further escalate the issue.

    Just to emphasize, I'm in no way blaming the field techs, I'm questioning the system.

    If this was any other industry you'd be bust by now! People would dump your services altogether. One tech, a knowledgeable tech, all the tools they need - You don't move on from a job until the issue is isolated and fully resolved, if the client has complained of the issue more than once and obviously there's evidence of a fault as highlighted by yourself, than the intermittent excuse really doesn't hold water. I know all about intermittent faults and diagnosis, that doesn't mean you just keep passing the customer from department to department.

    What you do in these forums is at times commendable Caspian and I'm sure people appreciate actually being told what's really going on regarding their issue - But the problem is, should it really be up to you to do so or should the systems already in place be capable of keeping the customer informed without back and forth calls for two hours at a time while only speaking to a 'customer service representative' for about 15 mins, the rest of the time you're on hold or being shuffled from department to department?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 1:21 PM
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

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    you clearly haven't spent any time whatsoever (or at least haven't learned much from it) in an organisation with thousands of moving parts and a hierarchy of complexity in fault resolution. perfection every time would mean training and equipping every single person to resolve every single problem, every single time, regardless of the cost or time it took. that's not practical, realistic or for that matter, required.

    get it in proportion and get the chip off your shoulder. the systems in place are entirely acceptable for need, and literally hundreds of people beyond myself spend time ensuring they are so. nor are they something NBN invented, they're industry standard across the entire face of the planet.

    if you want chauffeur driven levels of service, don't buy a bus ticket. if you want business grade levels of service, don't buy a consumer grade service. you already complain far more than is warranted or justified about the cost of NBN services, expecting more again for no doubt the same price is just another random bash.
     
  14. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I've worked in some fairly large organizations.

    Fact is: It's obvious just by your own comments that there's a lot of 'fat' at NBN Co in relation to tech levels, get rid of half the levels, do something worthwhile with in house communication as well as communication with ISP's as it's blatantly obvious there's issues there that are not being resolved, and make 'one tech' responsible for the rectification of faults from start to finish - Not three, four or five techs who all couldn't care less as well as associated management/support staff. Customers don't care about 'industry standards', customers want to hear "We've identified customer service/technical issues and have put systems in place to ensure they won't happen again". You're using the size of NBN Co as an organization as an excuse for poor service, that's bullshit.

    Until techs start taking responsibility for their own work, people are going to keep complaining. People are complaining because they're not receiving the service they're paying for and the root cause as the wholesaler is - NBN Co. It has to be highlighted that this isn't just a handful of isolated issues, the whole fault resolution process is a debacle of epic proportions.

    If anyone's got a chip on their shoulder it's yourself in relation to the customers that indirectly pay your wage. Don't crap on about the amount of money people are paying for their service, the cost of internet is not set by the public - People pay for a service, they expect a service with an adequate level of service, the current level of service is a Dog's breakfast and considering what people are paying for internet should be a magnitude better.

    The biggest problem here is the Government's mandated ROI, double dipping the taxpayer for critical utilities.

    If you took your car into a workshop to resolve an issue and got fucked around like this, you'd kill someone - This is absolutely no different.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 1:23 PM
  15. Nobby6

    Nobby6 Member

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    "I've had a chance to look at your service in more detail this"

    Ahhhhh . this explains your staunch support of NBN and your "leave the techs alone" attitude ... you're no longer in the Telstra mould you've moved over to NBN.... say ... no ... more ...

    20 years ago if a telstra tech turned up to fix a fault, they would FIX it and fix it professionally... unlike those contracted today... especially the 457's... point in case, even an 8 year old can tell when a faulty krone mech (not the plate) is replaced - SIDEWAYS... it shows there is a complete lack of care.

    I think all those working on NBN/Telstra should be made to go undertake a minimum of Cert3 Telecommunications (Net Build), in addition to their NBN "access types" training, copper and fibre jointing, pit 'n pipe and aerial .. pass all that and you got a least 3/4 of a clue.

    unlike the current fault finding on CAN 3 day course, the 7 day FTTC course, 5 day copper & fibre jointing, and 2 day pit n pipe, and we both know a lot of that is regs, WHS and Env Prot.

    thats populated with 30 or more people where examiners have no way of scrutinizing each applicant.

    Though I did hear talk that NBN was going to require new contractors to be at least open cabler registered... no idea if there was any move on that.
     
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  16. caspian

    caspian Member

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    the days of highly experienced, long term permanent employees looking after this sort of stuff have been fading for going on 2 decades now, and started well before I left Telstra - the same as the industry outsourced all of its customer support functions to India/The Philippines etc.

    if I ever become the CEO no doubt I'll do things differently, and no doubt it will cost more too - which nobody wants to pay for.
     
  17. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Judging by the unnecessary overheads in tech levels, I'm not so sure better service equates to more money. It's not that no one wants to pay more, it's that no one can afford to pay more. The average income is not as high as $80k a year, wages have stagnated since the mid 80s and inflation is at an all time high - Not to mention the issues surrounding low interest rates, the resulting personal debt and high fuel prices - None of which is in any way a mistake on behalf of the LNP.

    As it stands, the level of service provided does not match the outlay for internet in Australia.
     
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  18. Nobby6

    Nobby6 Member

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    If one is working on project XYZ then as a contractor it is ones responsibility to have the tools to do ones job.

    and they have to competently and confidently know how to use them.

    A sparky doesnt turn up to find faults with say a constantly tripping RCD without a megga, or even basic tool like a multimetre, a tech working on FTTP should have basic gear like powermetre and OTDR, I wonder if they even have a fusion splicer on board...
     
  19. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Totally agreed. However that's not the fault of the tech, that's the fault of NBN Co and their idea of tech 'levels' in the field. By the time the issue has escalated to the level of a tech callout, the tech should be fully equipped, knowledgeable and entirely capable of resolving any fault on the network and that should be the tech's assigned job until the issue is 100% resolved so that the tech actually takes ownership of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019 at 8:01 AM
  20. caspian

    caspian Member

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    it is indeed. however the contractor doesn't define their own scope of responsibility, the controlling company does.

    incorrect on several counts. a sparky doesn't have permission to work on a network fault, they fix in-premises issues past their point of demarcation of responsibility and authority.

    for exactly the same reason, a service tech doesn't carry tools like an OTDR or a fusion splicer, because it's not within their defined scope of responsibility to do so. they are responsible for addressing service related issues which means in-premises and lead-in, neither of which needs such tools. if they prove a fault upstream of their demarcation point into the network, the ticket gets handed to a specialised network team, with specialised tools and training.

    you should understand this sort of escalation ladder perfectly well, or do you think a tier 3 tech should be doing helpdesk tickets?
     

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