iPad - not an apple user

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by GTR27, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    Hi,
    have to BYOD for my sons school this year, and unfortunately the school has made ipads the standard. I have no apple devices at all in the house and only limited use of them (i used a iphone 6 for work for 12 months a few years ago and it was so bad I pulled the sim and bought my own phone as I found it such a frustrating experience)

    I'm trying to setup his ipad, and have had to just put his age down as over 18, because it wont allow me to setup an account otherwise (remember I have no apple accounts). I'm really struggling with the device, it almost constantly asks me to sign in for absolutely everything, it's like it will not remember anything.

    Trying to install the massive app list that the school has given has been a horrid chore. I havent even got one app installed and im ready to snap it in half and throw it in the bin.

    Brand new iPad 7 128gb (what the school asked for).

    Are there any guides that are decent for apple, because i'd be better off getting my kids to set it up than me, its so clunky and counter intuitive for me (i.e. nothing works how I would expect it to). It has Wifi setup and connected fine, and his account now seems to be working, but asking me to sign in a bazillion times is certainly getting on my nerves.

    So TLDR whats a good idiots guide to apple for app setup, device setup etc.
     
  2. Hater

    Hater Member

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    it's so easy that people's grandparents do it no sweat yet you're unable to?

    probably a bit hypocritical of me considering i destroyed a 3 week old galaxy S8 by throwing it at a wall out of pure frustration

    just don't do it and let the school do it. they probably have an appleID ready and waiting for him on the first day anyway

    they mandated it, they can deal with it
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  3. OP
    OP
    GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    I've figured out why that is. Apple have not tested the user case of a child with no other apple devices or users to be responsible for them. For example - I can do it on google from a PC, but cant do it with apple from a PC (i.e. I cant make an icloud account on a PC, setup a family and do family management from a PC.) It MUST be from an apple device - which I dont have

    I setup the kids phones (android) in this exact fashion with family accounts, all from a PC.

    It's like Apple couldnt imagine my exact scenario. I've managed to get a few apps installed now, but its like pulling teeth, and seems to ask continually to sign into the apple logon. Why does it ask constantly? can I get it to remember somehow?


    Also, 100% im turning up and saying any issues at all are their responsibility. Dont allow me choice of device, then congratulations you are now tech support for that device.

    EDIT: All apps required are free, yet somehow I must link a credit card? Why?
    EDIT2: Peoples grandparents are over 18, so can sign up like an adult.

    I've had to lie about my sons birthdate and make the account as though he was 18 to get it to work. Slowly getting shit installed....but fuck me talk about pulling teeth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  4. Hater

    Hater Member

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    They were pushing the iPad as a laptop replacement device forever and heaps of people just have an iPhone and nothing else so I daresay they have. Just put in fake credit card details.

    Anyway you can set the iPad up without an iCloud account and make a new account using the device anyway
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  5. OP
    OP
    GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    Yeah, now that i've faked an age, its accepted and can get shit going. It feels like they completely missed our usage case.

    Positives, it certainly feels like a $600 device. Build quality good, screen decent, nice and responsive screen/touch. I can see why people like them (they feel nice).
     
  6. Queenie

    Queenie Member

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    Gatekeeping: I study/research education.

    I'm quite sad to see this, since... there's not a lot of research that backs up device usage in a positive manner. There's a lot to be said about them negatively due to reduction in gray matter, impulse control and short term memory. It's less a 'computers are bad mmkay, and more a 'devices with immediate feedback cos you touched it+social media notifications' are bad mmkay'

    Most of the constant 'signing' in is because of various different Apple services that want to verify, like badging on at a construction site. Unfortunately, one 'badge-on' for the whole system isn't there, it's more like you have to badge into individual rooms, as most apps are different, and so is itunes, icloud, app store and emails.

    You've got a new ipad, and if you don't have home and contents insurance that covers accidental damage, i'd recommend applecare+ JUST because of the reduced repair fee.

    Recommendation:
    Learn what screen time is, and how it works, and use the apple support info on it.
    There are various settings for content management and downloading of apps, but i'd focus on turning off notifications and setting downtime.

    I'm still trying to come up with a solution that works, but the problem is that there is only one 'downtime' setting available, not multiple.

    Problem:
    kid has device. Kid in class. Kid isn't doing the classwork because they think the teacher can't see them, or doesn't care.
    Solution:
    Set downtime on device to school hours, and set the list of allowed apps to only be what the school needs. If the teacher wants to install a new app, great: ask them to tell you before class, because this is the best method of ensuring your kid is actually able to engage with the class instead of playing games.

    I'd love to say trust is cool, but I don't know you or your kids relationship, so if you're worried, do this.

    Good luck.



    Troubleshooting:

    If there are lots of apps, and there is a child, I'm going to assume at some point, passcodes will be forgotten, and to remove the passcode, erasing the device via itunes is needed. (Yes, that itunes)

    This requires a computer. You don't have a mac, which means it's a PC. Great.
    I'd honestly just recommend a virtual machine install with no security software to run itunes in so it doesn't stuff with your other programs and security software, just in case there are problems.

    I mean, you could teach him about being responsible for his data loss. Basically, in settings > your name > icloud, there's stuff turned on, or off. If it's on, it's not in a backup. If it's off, it is.
    I don't know where this backup is. If you use icloud, understand stuff (photos) won't upload unless connected to wifi and the battery isn't <50%

    There is the apple support app if you do want tech support. Make sure the device isn't in the school's MDM program. If it is, ask why they aren't providing the devices, since only the MDM manager can relinquish what is effectively 'ownership' of the device.
     
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  7. FantoM_CircuiT

    FantoM_CircuiT Member

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    You've made this really hard for yourself. You should have created an account for yourself (which you can absolutely do online in a web browser, not sure what you are talking about not being able to...), then create a child account for your kid. That way things like screen time/parental controls and App Store purchases can all be controlled by you, and your kid gets their own account.

    These devices and services really are simple as long as you do things in the way its been designed. It will fight you every step of the way otherwise.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    Yeah I've had people show me how to do more stuff on it now. It's just completely backwards to what im used to, and if Im honest, i'm not really interested in learning too much to make it better for me (I dont want to use one, or need to use one). We limit screen time by taking the iPad off him after school, except for homework. I randomly check it for new / other apps and have warned him that if he puts anything non-school related on it, I will factory reset it including his homework (ie wipe it clean). He understands fully that its school use only :thumbup:

    I'm not putting iTunes on any PC, because thats way too much of a ball ache (it takes over everything and I CBF making a virtual PC to have just that on). Not sure what support app the school uses, but they can deal with a forgotten password if need be.

    He's actually really good with it, doesnt really show too much of an interest in it outside of school. Would much sooner play on the PC (games) or on his PS4. Took him a while to learn how to use it also as we've only had Android in our house. He seems to get on OK now and is a really tech savvy kid, so not too worried that i'll need to support him.
     
  9. Hater

    Hater Member

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    iTunes is dead bruh, been gone for 6 months now, doesn't even come on MacOS anymore
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  10. Queenie

    Queenie Member

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    Sounds good.

    Hater, itunes is still on pc's and required for passcode resets. Not that it matters, since it can be a nightmare to troubleshoot.


    I said password, not passcode, since the apple id one (password) is done on the ipad. They are different things to google when something goes wrong.


    I'm saying this so your son doesn't get told by the school's IT department to call apple support and then you spend half an hour on the phone being told you have to do it yourself, and then finding out that password and passcode are different things.
     
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  11. shortielah

    shortielah Member

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    Uhhh this is exactly what his complaint is about?
    I had the exact same issue a few years ago when my daughter needed an iPad for school. We have 0 other Apple devices in the house, I configured a Parent account and created a child account for her. Literally can't do anything on the device because it always sends a push notification to the Parent account, which only displays on Apple devices....
     
  12. OP
    OP
    GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up Queenie. I'll remember to look back at this thread if that happens (Which inevitably, im sure will). But I'm taking the "If you demand that we must get iPads, then I demand that you must support it" policy with the school. I dont care about spending on a good tablet (and physically, the iPad is well built) but it should be BYOD of our choosing. It's probably this way because theres still muppets stuck in apple land and havent moved with the times, because all they do is phone calls, texts and pictures. It's just lazy of the IT department to do this (and if i'm honest, unfair to parents who are not well off, although we are in a "rich" area, so probably not that big an issue).

    Appreciate the help / responses given. We have a handle on it now, ive finished raging over backwards / complicated setup for non apple-land people :lol:
     
  13. Queenie

    Queenie Member

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    I agree with your policy.

    In education, there's a lot of money being pushed by various parties with vested interests- like wolframalpha is basically trying to take over maths education in vic, and there's a lot of trigger happy device people, such as that school in NSW that proudly proclaimed they have no books in the school *facepalm*
     
  14. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    There are some very good reasons to use iPads over other devices in schools, and even better ones for not just allowing anyone to bring whatever device they have/prefer as BYOD.

    Entire curriculums will be built around using Apple school manager/iPads, for privacy/device control/app delivery/standardisation etc. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be to manage a lesson for 30 kids with different devices, different apps, different versions of apps and apps with different content if the kids were just allowed to bring whatever they had.

    That's not to mention features like focus, where teachers can force iPads to be viewing a particular book/app, or device supervision, where teachers can view what's on the screen of every iPad in the class to ensure they're working, or assessment confg - Where teachers can switch all iPads into a locked down mode that can officially be used for tests (inc NAPLAN) or a tonne of other little features like these - Apple have put a shitload of work into making the iPad actually add value in class rather than just be a glorified browser.

    No platform exists to manage stuff like this across different device types - And if you switch to google you have the same problems in reverse (likely more tbh).

    It sounds like the schools IT dept have done an exceptionally poor job of communicating with parents - I've seen really awesome and simple onboarding guides from schools, or even schools that have tech setup days where they have staff guide parents through the process.

    Even just to touch on one thing - You don't need to setup a 18+ iTunes account if the school is managing this properly, but it sounds like they aren't - So really you're getting the worst of any possible iPad experiences. It's not really Apple or the device's problem - Hopefully you can have a constructive conversation with IT @ school, or feed this back to the principal so he/she can whip them into shape.

    What they should be doing is creating managed Apple IDs for all their students, handing these out and then auto installing or offering a custom apps store for all the apps required to get students up and running.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  15. OP
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    GTR27

    GTR27 Member

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    Yeah we were just told we have to buy an apple device and install these apps on it.

    I wouldn't care if the school provided the tablets and managed then properly like Kei has suggested, but the whole "go do this" and no real help for it, just assuming people use Apple already is a bit shit.

    In any case, it works, I'm not touching it so win/win
     
  16. vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    Has Apple cut some deal with the Dept of Education ? So many schools seem to require Apple devices. Is this not anti-competitive?
    I'd have thought MS would be all over that sort of preferential treatment...
     
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  17. power

    power Member

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    Apple have always targeted education, gotta indoctrinate 'em young.
     
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  18. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Some schools request BYOD iPad and then take over management of it to do all this stuff.

    Apple have invested in making their devices work great in schools, so schools use them.. There isn't a conspiracy here.

    Google 'classroom' and Chromebooks are also hugely popular, so usually a school/district etc will align to one or the other and design their lesson plans/infrastructure/training etc etc for the platform.
     
  19. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Just don't forget that AppleID password. Depending on the recovery methods at your disposal (which will be limited if you have no other Apple devices signed into the same account and happen to change your phone number or email address some time in the future), you may as well snap the thing in half and throw it in the bin if you ever need to restore it.

    I'm not a fan of iPads in schools, in fact I'm not a fan of proprietary products in schools - I see it as no more than an early form of conditioning.
     

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