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ISPs - What you find acceptable

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Primüs, Sep 20, 2015.

?

Most important ISP quality

  1. Price

    15 vote(s)
    14.7%
  2. Speed

    72 vote(s)
    70.6%
  3. Quota

    10 vote(s)
    9.8%
  4. Support

    5 vote(s)
    4.9%
  1. LostBenji

    LostBenji Member

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    Up a tower somewhere....
    Not voting on this, the the options are what you the OP are calling a quality.

    A good quality ISP has the following:

    • Low contention ratios
    • Fair prices
    • Clear line between business and domestic users
    • Local (in country) support
    • Support engineers who know their shit, no SCRIPT readers
    • Speeds that are only limited by the medium that they are delivered on
    • simple and stable network
    Now that I have listed the above, I can't think of any ISP that is quality anymore, all fall short in more than one area.
     
  2. OP
    OP
    Primüs

    Primüs Member

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    See - I could offer you all of the above - however your download quota may be 150GB or less during the 'On Peak' quota. That's where my sale is hard ,because everyone is looking for that 200GB + plans, then expecting all of the above, which is nigh on impossible - as all of that has high back-end costs and leaves no money to make the business profitable. AU Staff that are level 2 and above = $$, Low contention rations = $$$. Networks with insane amounts of redundancy = $$$$.
     
  3. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Member

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    My current plan is
    adsl2 - 3.5Mbits/sec - limited by the connection quality, so nothing i can do there.
    100gig - normally use under half, but do have periods where i scrape the ceiling.
    $50/month - I do not want to pay more.

    If all this data retention crap affects that, then I would prefer a drop in data to keep the same price.

    I'd be happy with a drop in data (50-75g) to get faster speed, at the same price.
    But, adsl2, faster wont happen.

    Reliability of service is also a big one to me.
    Only had a few issues over the years that were taken care of fairly quickly.
     
  4. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

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    And they need to be able to communicate effectivly with NBN/Telstra and not play the handball game.

    One thing i like about HFC there is no handballing between carriers.

    Knowing the costs involved with providing internet its a fact of life you cant provide the service that consumers want for the price point they want to pay. 1mbit of carriage provides ~300GB over 28 days. $100 a month doesnt get you even 1mbit of international transit, its offset by caching, CDNs and local traffic. Its the only way to get your costs down. P2P caching would be awesome id it wasnt for the legal shit around it.

    I think one thing you need is discounting, offer $500 of value for $100, massive 80% off it works in retail? :)
     
  5. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

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    It's a tough gig, as you well know. As the saying goes: "If it was easy, everyone would be doing it."

    No ISP can be all things to all people. Since there's growing broadband penetration into the more elderly segments due to forced NBN conversions, maybe aim for that? Case in point:
    http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1176214

    If the kids of 'oldies' can find an ISP specifically marketed as reliable and easy to sign up/communicate with, that could be a nice niche market.

    Those who don't have scale and join the race to the bottom will die off soon enough. While I personally don't like on/off peak (doesn't suit me), at (my guess at your) size that may be your only choice for plan sets that appeal to a wider market.

    Me, I value the quality of the network: I only do a few hundred GB per month but when I do, I want it flat out.
     
  6. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    I would lump in with the "oldies". Keep it working, don't lie about speed (or anything else), have somebody with a clue on the other end of the phone if you have to ring up.... Price : reasonable Quota : doesn't have to be huge. It isn't just grannies who should "go for" something like that. I'm sure there are (lots of?) people not downloading like maniacs, or using the computer for videos. That is, a "tier" in between "business" (can't break down, EVAH!, you've got to take my calls NOW!) and "home" (houseful of kids downloading 24/7, give me unlimited and give it to me for a pittance). People who just want the email not to screw up, and have a person on the phone who doesn't behave like a robot and treat you like a moron if you need to ring up about something.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Primüs

    Primüs Member

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    This is largely my customer base right now - but the market for that is dwindling hence my want to research what kind of things I can offer to the public to get some traction without sending myself broke.
     
  8. Copie

    Copie Member

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    tbh with NBN, 9/10 if its not the router playing up, its going to require a NBN tech coming out or escalation to them anyways , so for me service isnt a top priority.
     
  9. power

    power Member

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    Internet should be like any utility, gas, electricity, water, landline phone.

    Quota - no quota, unlimited pay for what you use.
    Speed - same for everyone, unlimited speed.
    Price - is the same for everyone based on usage only.
    Service - it just works, everyone gets an internet doodad and you plug it in to your internetting thing of choice.

    ISP's (and mobile telco's) need to work toward this goal. The current models and expectations are completely broken IMO.

    Segmenting this market to maximise profits from every single kb is a crap way to provide something like internet.

    The trend toward counting uploads as part of your quota and data limits is anti-consumer and pro-shareholder.
     
  10. B3ND3R

    B3ND3R Member

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    Needs a reliability option. Speed is great, but if i get get daily drop outs its more frustrating.
     
  11. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

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    That's surprising; I would have thought that portion of the market would be growing, not dwindling. Are you sure it's the market? Maybe your point of differentiation messaging needs some work/isn't getting across effectively? Maybe you need some *shudder* marketing assistance :sick:

    PS: I don't like marketing :lol:
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Primüs

    Primüs Member

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    I dont like marketing either - and I have learned enough to know small spats of radio or newspaper etc here and there does jack shit. It needs to be almost an all or nothing approach which quickly takes the bill sky high. I read somewhere a potential customer needs to hear/see the product 5-7 times before they take real notice, so not only over different mediums but high frequency on a single medium, youd' be looking at TV, mailbox, newspaper, online, radio just to start.

    As for the market, its a fine line to play, because those customers are also the ones who don't really care if there internet isn't used or offline for 2-5 days in a lot of cases, or has peak time slowdowns, because a) they dont understand the problem and b) aren't big users, so they vote with wallet and see the dodo/tpg high quota/unlimited and think I'm ripping them off. BUT, if I raise my quota's too much to compete and get their business, suddenly I'm also attracting the demanding customer who will want to use it all ;)
     
  13. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Ultimately, it's speed for me. I'm with TPG, and due to the good fortune of being a literal stone's throw from the exchange, my speeds have always been good.

    Whilst I appreciate good support, I'm not too stressed about it, is 99% of the time, I can figure out my own issues. I've made a single phone call to my ISP in 10 years.

    Quota is good, but really, if I have to pay extra to get more, but keep a good quality of service, then I'd rather pay more.

    A san observation from another land...

    I travel to the Philippines a lot, due to my partner being there. Up until about early last year, the mobile net speeds were pretty good (as in acceptable). On 3g I could tether to my notebook, check mail, surf OCAU etc, and never felt lacking for speed. Though if I wanted to download anything really large, or watch a 1080P youtube vid, well, it did struggle...

    Then, to gain market share, the two network providers each released plans that gave you Facebook access for free. Now both mobile networks are flooded with people posting selfies to facebook for free, with a single Peso (about 3¢) in their accounts (the amount required by the providers to offer the free FB access).

    It's mental now. You simple can not do anything at anywhere near "peak" times any more. I can't check mail, heck, I can't even send Viber or iMessage messages at times - and this is with a 4G plan.

    You could say I appreciate the metering of all data these days, simply because it has the potential to stop the flooding of networks with crap because people have to consider their quota - mainly, of course for nations with 3rd world standards of Internet - such as the Philippines and Australia.

    Z...
     
  14. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    Is there anyone who doesn't care, even if they are low-end users?

    Have you asked your existing customers what they like/don't like/want/don't want? Is the demographic on OCAU likely to address the same gripes/likes/wants?

    As for marketing, instead of advertising, is there scope to address various potential groups? CWA? Tupperware ladies? Sports clubs? Somewhere to generate word-of-mouth referrals? Community focus? (bendigo bank goes for this approach)
     
  15. Bass

    Bass Member

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    For me it's stable latency (which includes connection stability ie no packetloss or drop outs). Have been through a few budget style ISPs with big download limits but now I'm sticking with paying a bit more to have an ISP using a decent network with adequate backhaul/contention. I no longer download huge amounts of crap like I used to.
     
  16. bennyg

    bennyg Member

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    I don't know what useful info a simple poll gives tbh.

    I voted price since that's what I buy on first. However if the other three don't meet a minimum standard I'll pay more until I'm happy, and once happy I'll stay there until something else pops up that is demonstrably better or cheaper.

    Currently on unlimited TPG for $60/mo (includes phone line which we do need for incoming calls) we get 7/1 on adsl2+ some 3km from exchange and it's good enough for us
     
  17. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    speed (contention) and quota. So I pay for a business plan.

    Support comes with that, but I don't care. I've been on the internet since the days of having to know what SLIP means, and have never needed support.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Primüs

    Primüs Member

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    Indeed but as one of those people if you had a Network or Line fault that you could NOT fix physically - you dont want to be calling and spending 2 hours explaining that you know more than the level 1 tech and to throw out the script! :p Back before I worked/ran this ISP I used to be with TPG too because I could fix most of my own issues, but the one time I had a line fault it was not a fun experience.
     
  19. caspian

    caspian Member

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    it's a nice thought, but you tend to use about the same amount of power and water from month to month, so the utility knows where they stand in terms of what network capacity and augmentation they need to plan for.

    internet doesn't work like that, so the solution is to push the problem back to the user, and rely on *them* to plan their usage.

    doesn't work. the delivery mechanisms don't permit it.

    again, doesn't work. everyone tends to want to use their connection at the same time. I presume you'll also want your service to perform at the same speed? so if you're buying twice the speed of someone else, during rush hour you are consuming twice the resources, so up goes the price.

    that I agree with. access fees should be flat. variable fees should be based on user pays.

    IMO that started from a twofold perspective:

    (1) a blatant ripoff to make the advertising numbers look artificially bigger by advertising *total* data allowance, not download
    (2) increased upload usage due to widespread P2P which started to make upload costs a very real consideration

    aaNet had a very fair system. buy 50GB, you got 50GB up and 50GB down. blow either limit and you got charged $3/GB excess. if you "bought" a GB more download, you got a GB more upload.


    my basic rules for an ISP that I'd buy a service from:

    (1) commit to supplying a quality product. don't bother to chase the Dodos, TPGs and Exetels. their customers are not a market you want. N+1 redundancy for everything, manage your contention ratios actively, plan your augmentations well ahead, kick out the leeches who impact your real customers.
    (2) maintain stuff. people don't want support, they want it not to break in the first place.
    (3) don't deal with idiots. your business will be defined by the biggest idiot you allow to supply or represent you.
    (4) charge a fair price, which includes making a fair profit. I don't expect you to run the business for free. I value continuity.
    (5) package your product appropriately. ISPs that sell 5GB, 50GB and 500GB plans are just sending the message that they are trying to rip people off by forcing them to buy something they don't need.
     
  20. caspian

    caspian Member

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    there's a difference between support and the ability to effectively escalate a network fault. script readers just piss people off because they are morons and they treat everyone else like a moron. everyone in the industry knows that isolation testing gets done because it works a large proportion of the time. what you don't need is to play fucking snakes and ladders where you have to begin again with dickhead #5 at the beginning of the script because you had to call back, dickheads 1-4 have left no notes of what was done, said, agreed and tried, and dickhead #5 probably wouldn't read them anyway.
     

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