1. OCAU Merchandise is available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion in this thread.
    Dismiss Notice

It's 2015 - Why so few decent mATX cases?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Hardware' started by the3coopers, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. demiurge3141

    demiurge3141 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,350
    Location:
    Melbourne 3073
    [​IMG]

    Seriously, get a SHAW an be done with it.
     
  2. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    I vote that this thread gets renamed "Consolidated Case Rant Thread".
     
  3. OP
    OP
    the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,685
    Location:
    Sydney 2151
    Well, NO - you have totally forgotten something quite important.

    The design engineers are the ones who put the case feet in that position.

    Example: the popular FRACTAL ARC MIDI

    Grrrr, those bloody rear case feet in the way...

    [​IMG]

    That's a fairly long 3/4 length filter, so you have to slide your case out about 450mm from the wall to remove it.

    And see those pressed guide rails to hold the sides of the filter - they don't go full length. So as you slide the filter back in from the rear, the front edge drops due to gravity.... so you will NEVER pick up the second set of guide rails near the middle of the case.

    But wait - what if we give the job to AN ENGINEER WHO ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT?

    [​IMG]

    WTF - IS THAT VOODOO? :confused: :confused:

    (I'm in a rush, so I didn't draw the filter handle on the bottom side, but you get the idea.)

    Anyway, I'm reasonably sure that a good engineer with CAD or 3D Modelling software might even be able to design it better than I can quickly knock up using a freeware photo editing program. ;)

    I think I mentioned previously that product design and production engineering is something I have been heavily involved with for about 30 years. It's not hard. ;)

    Hmmm......so did you check all my links in the previous post? All of those are "premium" cases. And here's a few more gems, chosen from Google images at random...

    THE WAY TO GO - coz the Corsair 750D is a budget case, right?
    http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/corsair_obsidian_750d_59.jpg

    TOTAL IDIOCY = Tt Level 10 (look carefully and think about it):
    http://www.hardwareasylum.com/images/tt_level10_gt/case_bottom.jpg

    DESIGN EVOLUTION = Tt CORE V51 which has a full length bottom filter
    http://www.pcgameware.co.uk/images/Thermaltake-Core-V51-bottom.jpg
    - oops, make that 2 x 1/2 filters, and the front one requires the facia to be removed.

    ABSOLUTE LUNACY = the infamous Silverstone FT-02, which puts the 3 filters INSIDE the case, so you MORE must remove the side panel to access them:
    http://www.modders-inc.com/modules/NDReviews/images2/Silverstone_FT02/Silverstone_FT02-18.jpg
    - OH, but wait... to remove the side panel, you first have to REMOVE THE WHOLE TOP OF THE CASE. :rolleyes:

    Do I really need to show more? :lol:

    I am TOTALLY taking that into account. Your 750D example is perfect. They make it as cheap as possible, charge a premium, and the consumers just accept it.

    I feel like that old man quite often. But at least with Shaw you get exactly what you expected.

    You know the saying... Why pay extra for fancy quality? :tongue:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  4. 5tumpy

    5tumpy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,611
    Location:
    Goulburn, NSW
    Once again mate, flying off to your tree over nothing... You actually can flip the panel, without issue... Only downside to it is that the I/O panel is upside down...
     
  5. Brick

    Brick Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    468
    Cool, so now we have a filter that can easily be pushed too far across allowing air to come into the case unfiltered which was one of your major complaints in your first post. The solution? An oversized filter or some other feature that would almost definitely add cost. Rear removal? Cheap and easy idiot proofing.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,685
    Location:
    Sydney 2151
    Oh, yeah - so it does! Thanks for pointing out my error.

    I erroneously commented based on the ITX version where if you swapped the side panels then the cables for the SSDs and I/O are crushed up against the "accessible side" of the HDD cages (makes access to the drives an absolute nightmare, you know).

    However it's still a pretty shithouse design in the mATX version. With the I/O panel physically bolted to the side panel, it makes accessing insides of the machine a real bitch.

    When you want to open the case, what do you do - somehow unplug the entire I/O panel including the SSDs, or do you leave them all hanging off and prop the side panel up against the frame and hope like hell it doesn't fall over?

    WHAT on earth are you talking about?

    Here's a hint - go back up and READ the post. Carefully. In fact, just look at YOUR OWN POST and the very last line of mine that you quoted. Geeze!

    Cheap? Nope, it costs exactly the same.

    Idiot Proof? Nope, doesn't change that either. Just makes it harder for everyone.

    What is it with the OCAU Members? Jump to the defence of the case manufacturers. They can do no wrong. They are gods, and we are not worthy. ROFL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2015
  7. 5tumpy

    5tumpy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,611
    Location:
    Goulburn, NSW
    The reason I know you can do it, is because that was the first thing I did... Next thing I want to do is get my hands on a windowed panel from a Prodigy and if I can get it to fit...
     
  8. Brick

    Brick Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    468
    Answer one thing, what is stopping your filter idea from being pushed too far across the case to cause misalignment with the venting ? The answer, not a lot, that or it wouldn't be removable from both sides

    Also again with the double posting, you know the forum has guidelines about that kind of thing

    EDIT: Actually, adding on some small dimples to the filter could provide a suitable lock to help provide proper alignment. Personally I'm not a huge fan of that style of mechanism as they often wear out too easily, arguably another form of poor design
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
  9. Deeb0

    Deeb0 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    3207
    Im constantly looking for new cases and Im baffled that an average case costs $150 and is so poorly thought out and simply constructed. Straight forward things like having the i/o, jacks & usb ports on the front or side are completely disregarded.

    I have been seriously looking at the Bitfenix Pandora but you'll hate it cause theres no room for a cd drive.

    Good thread, hopefully some manufacturers read it.

    Good luck with your search!
     
  10. VirtualNinja

    VirtualNinja Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Location:
    North Parramatta
    Ah Coops, I'm not going to bother quoting the pics however nice design but one thing you forgot, those rails are running the full width of the case and as the original rails are pressed metal not welded or riveted rails that means In your redesign you have 2 slits running across the entire width of the case thus becoming a weak point.

    Sure they could just weld or rivet the 2 rails but that would mean adding in robots or humans (low volume) as an extra step to do this, as case productions facilities are either full or semi automated.

    Here are a couple of good videos of case manufacturing and why expensive cases are the prices that they are.

    Inwin



    Lian Li
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
  11. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    9,807
    Location:
    A Place of Tubers
    Awesome thread, reminded me of this;

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Sebstar

    Sebstar Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,504
    Location:
    Sydney
    Rofl. You're kidding right? You think case manufacturer's trawl OCAU to seek advice on how to construct cases?
     
  13. Paulie_AU

    Paulie_AU Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3,485
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Any proactive company wanting to maximise their sell would have a look at what the community is asking for. Would they come to OCAU particularly for that..... who knows but they may use a marvelous thing called a search engine, and stumble across it.

    So yes it is possible that a company without its head up its arse may happen across this thread and take some things on board.

    Also people need to realise that better stuff gets built by challenging things. Poor design up front is not an excuse but needing to meet a price point sort of is.

    If people think this bad, see what happens when you sit on a risk workshop for a multimillion dollar project and the project manager starts having kittens when they realise that without changing the design and modifying (generally meaning more $$$) this people will be injured or even killed. This is tiny scale shit but it does not mean proper design practices shouldn't be followed.

    Someone having to drag a 20kg built computer out from under a desk to remove a filter out the rear is shit. Personally I could accept having to remove a side panel if this was an easy task.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  14. m3k

    m3k Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,065
    just quietly- whilst I agree that case filtering is a good idea- If you buy a really good Dyson or top of the range hoover etc with agitating power heads- and then vacuum thoroughly once a week or every second week generally you shouldn't be seeing a dust problem in your case.

    Especially if you keep your case off carpet

    One last thing i want to add is that- If your case is caked full of that crap? imagine your lungs...

    Buy a good vacuum cleaner :thumbup: especially if you have allergies or a pet etc.

    I mean- if your building a computer for somebody else- i totally understand the filter problem- but for yourself- i just suggest cleaning your house haha

    case filtering is like ABS in a car its a nice feature to have- But if you're using it regularly - ur doing it wrong haha

    it should be like: oh wow- its been 6 months and my filter caught some dust thats awesome- its doing its job - not Oh brb its been a few weeks so i have to clean the lifeform growing on my dustfilter or ill over heat

    also- i've also found that A: dust filters make more turbulence noise- and B: restrict airflow (especially when clogged)

    more of a reason to take them off and just clean your room :D


    as for the rest- yeah- I think alot of the cases now are pretty zzz-but i own alot of bitpheonix prodigy's- they are really nice. i happily recommend them- then again i get smaller modular PSU's and mod the cables to be shorter and sleeved :/ and i know coops you're against sleeving- but IMHO that's like being against wearing a suit: sure you lose mobility- but who needs mobility when you look great.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
  15. OP
    OP
    the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,685
    Location:
    Sydney 2151
    You forget that dirt and dust comes from OUTSIDE, not from the house itself. Country areas for example will fill a machine with red dust within weeks.

    The idea of filters is to prevent dust and shit from clogging up your motherboard, fans, heatsinks, radiators, etc.

    No filter is of any use whatsoever if those filters are:
    a) internal, and thus inaccessible
    b) on the bottom of the case, and unable to be accessed.

    My complaint is about the shithouse DESIGN QUALITY of the filtering on cases. If you don't care, then good for you.

    Using your analogy, it's a car that is sold as having ABS, but it only functions for a week then cannot be effective unless you remove the engine and gearbox. That makes the ABS on that car pointless, but that doesn't mean that all ABS is pointless.

    Individually sleeved cables are just a fad, just like the Safari Suit was. Whether either of them actually "looks great" is debatable. [​IMG]

    When you get right down to it, the only people who think that a mass of individually sleeved cables "looks great" are all the people who also think that they look great.

    It's very common in African American culture for a woman with a large prominent butt to be desired because she "looks great". When the big-butt lovers ask other African American people, everyone agrees that "big butts = looks great".
    - but the rest of the world has a bit of vomit in their mouth from even the thought of it. :(
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  16. macktheknife

    macktheknife Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    I like big butts and I cannot lie.
     
  17. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Messages:
    9,019
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Many years ago (2002?) I had the pleasure of spending an afternoon with several representatives of Lian-Li. It was very pleasing to see some of my suggestions appear in later generations of the PC-60 series.

    I've no idea what they've been smoking since though!
     
  18. bobbavet

    bobbavet Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,671
    Location:
    East Maitland
    Oh man, just found this thread.


    Wish I hadn't. Rofl
     
  19. Freebee

    Freebee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Sydney, 2081
    lol, id agree with this, other than a brief stint around 2006-7 where they seemed to be smoking the right stuff :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  20. bobbavet

    bobbavet Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,671
    Location:
    East Maitland
    For what it's worth. I don't fint Matx itx any worse than the big boys. Always some feature that you consider retard.

    For me, my bane is front panel drive bay covers. Why they haven't quietly "foad" by now I will never know.

    The Thermal take range looks good ATM. Need some color in them though. The V21 is ticking a lot of boxes for me.

    I like those handled Corsair itx, though they are 1x240 rad away from being ideal for me.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015

Share This Page

Advertisement: