Jac's trip down memory lane

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade Worklogs' started by JaC, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    He's a persian/himalayan mix. Rad little dude.

    Keyboard is my old logitech wave. My keyboard game is pretty weak. I need to get a couple better keyboards.

    Edit to avoid spam: Spoke to a friend in the states and he's going to help me out by forwarding on some stuff to me. About half an hour later, a US domestic only shipping KT7A-Raid I was watching on ebay dropped to $40USD which was all the encouragement I needed. Not the cheapest, and might be a while until I see it, but it's on the way. Fingers crossed it works.

    Still on the lookout for suitable cases for AT P2 and ATX P3 machines.

    Been having fun with the Barton machine. Spent a while playing some TDM botmatch UT2k4 to dust off the cobwebs, moved onto some Wolf Enemy Territory (surprisingly many populated Australian servers) and a little bit of COD single player.

    Bought Q3, MOH:AA, MOH:pA and RTCW on GOG for $12 all up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Got an 8800GTS for the Pentium D to free up the way overpowered 9800GT for a core 2 quad machine.

    Of course the Dell doesn't have room for the double back plate. Thought it might work if I swapped the plates over but it hits on the CPU hsf.

    IMG_20200816_085514.jpg IMG_20200816_085859.jpg IMG_20200816_090001.jpg

    So I guess we find a slim 8800GT(S) and try again.

    HL2 has been fun to play in short the stints I get, with some UT2004 botmatch TDM in between for some bonus mindless FPS skill development.

    KT7A-Raid arrived at my mate's place in the states. One step closer to having 16-year old me's dream PC.

    Caps arrived for the QDI K7S746FX and power supply. Work has been a bit busy. Once it settles down a bit I'll bust out the iron and get them swapped out.

    Need to test the Voodoo 2 before I bother trying to put the extra RAM on it (Vanne has made me nervous).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  3. Pierre32

    Pierre32 Member

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    oof, frustrating.
     
  4. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Got a big delivery from slavewone
    IMG_20200826_180758.jpg IMG_20200826_180805.jpg IMG_20200826_180817.jpg

    So much goodness. Some slight damage from the trip, but nothing a couple minutes with a steady hand and a pair of pliers couldn't fix. The cracked ram slot should be ok, and it's slot 3 anyway. 2x512mb stocks is plenty for a P3 1266.
    IMG_20200826_183444.jpg IMG_20200826_183456.jpg

    My first lian Li case. Love the removable tray.
    IMG_20200826_195321.jpg

    Need some heatsinks now. I think the GeForce 2 GTS should have had one (my MX had a passive one I think). This is actually my first socket 370 cpu so I don't have any spares. I do have a bit of socket a stuff which can kind of be used but none really fit.

    I have an AMD OEM looking hsf but the retention clip bottoms out about 1mm before slipping over the lug. The thermaltake volcano clips on but it's huge, the fan hits the ram even without the light up fan grille and the heatsink occupies where the PSU should go. The slotket is basically hard up against the PSU so anything that overhangs is too wide.
    IMG_20200826_215303.jpg IMG_20200826_215320.jpg IMG_20200826_215539.jpg IMG_20200826_215605.jpg

    So I'll pull the fan off and run it with the PSU hanging off the side to test everything works on the weekend and then keep hunting for a smaller hsf. Bought a cheap and probably crappy hsf for the gf2 off eBay with the required 55mm hole spacing. GPU cooling requirements were much simpler back then so it should be fine.

    Dug out an old 17" Dell LCD from the shed so I've got a 4:3 display. Fingers crossed it still works.
     
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    OK, so I think I need a bit of help.

    Back in the day I had a Katmai P3 but then I jumped ship to AMD. Coppermines and Tualatins and their quirks are foreign to me.

    I was hoping to run a P3-S 1266 in a Slot-T in a GA-6VXE+. Putting it together, setting the multiplier to 9.5 and FSB to 133 on the DIP switches/jumpers and I get nothing. Fans spin up but no beeps. Pulled RAM and video card and still no beeps.

    I put a native slot 1 celeron 266 in, reset multiplier/FSB settings and I get the long slow RAM beeps. Added RAM and I get the video card beeps. Added a video card and I get a nice single post beep (though by this stage I'd given up plugging the VGA cable in so I'm only assuming it actually POSTed without any further issues). Anyway, I think that proves the motherboard is alive, the power supply works and the RAM is fine.

    So I think the board just doesn't support Tualatins, at least not with the slot-t. Seems like maybe a powerleap adapter might have had more chance of success on account of it's internal voltage reg, which the slot-t apparantly doesn't have. The slot-t does have jumper settings for voltage - not sure what that's about if there's no regulation on the board.

    So, wise of intel gurus of OCAU, what's my problem? Is it just a voltage issue?
    Can the current hardware work together?
    If not, what do I need to run this CPU? Different adapter? Different motherboard?


    Also, looks like the GF2 GTS that was meant to go in this machine also took a little damage in the post and I get the bad/no video card beeps. After a quick visual there's an SMD resistor missing and a cap is cracked in two. They're only 0805 size components and they're a part of the RAM circuit so I can check the values of the same components in one of the other RAM circuits and replace them. The soldering pile grows. In the mean time I've got a few other video cards to test with and get up and running.
     
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  6. slavewone

    slavewone Member

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    Hi JaC,

    I’m really pleased the GA-6VXE+ talks and sounds alive. I originally bought that board new, perhaps 99?

    No, it doesn’t have native Tully support but the slot T should give you enough compatibility to run it.

    Try playing around with the multipliers and FSB. I’m not sure if the slot T over rides the board or some quirk with multipliers and fsb’s

    I do remember all sorts of games making exotic combos like this work but I don’t remember what the fussy was exactly.


    I’m sorry to hear about the GF2, I hope the free stuff makes up for it. The HDD’s do sound like they are much more promising from the limited testing I did.
     
  7. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Funnily enough when I was googling one of the top results is this

    https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/p3-1ghz-into-a-ga-6vxe-m-b-wont-go.74129/#post-871954

    Even if I can't get it to work with the tualatin, I know it works and it will come in handy for something else.

    Video card damage is minor. Just a couple of chip smd passives. About 30 seconds worth of soldering when I can get a minute. Resistor value is 75 ohms based off the other ram circuits and the cap will probably be .1uf decoupler but I'll pluck another one off and measure it.
    IMG_20200830_142026.jpg IMG_20200830_141917.jpg

    Looks like something has given some of the ram legs a touch up as well but it looks cosmetic. No shorts or opens

    IMG_20200830_141940.jpg

    Both SMD fuses are still intact.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  8. adz

    adz Member

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    IIRC, every Tualatin adapter I've ever come across has jumpers, I believe they tell the regs on the mobo what voltage to supply. Make sure you set them correctly.
     
  9. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    I think I found a solution
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Build-Y...596039&hash=item59557d4141:g:tCsAAOSweelfP-vU

    But actually, found a manual for the slot-t. Already had fsb set to 133 and voltage to 1.45 which I believe is correct so I'm pretty sure all jumper and dip switch settings are right and it's a compatibility issue.

    Briefly went down the rabbit hole of modding cpus with adaptors but I really can't be bothered with that. The Athlon pencil trick is about as much modding as I want to get into at the moment. Found a list of S370 boards on vogons wiki that shows which boards support tualatins so maybe I'll just keep an eye out for a TUSL2 or something.
    https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_Socket_370_motherboards

    Bought a 1ghz S370 coppermine to (hopefully) take the easy way out for now. Still need a proper heatsink. They're more expensive than the CPU on ebay. I'll keep the ghetto test setup and make the purchase once it boots.
     
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  10. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    A little while back my KT7A-Raid turned up at my mates place in SF, though not without some damage. Hopefully there's no important tracks damaged but we'll find out soon enough. It got repacked and sent last week. Wasn't sure how long it would take to leave the country given it's coming via USPS but apparently it passed through Tokyo a couple days ago so maybe it will be here before too long.

    IMG-20200911-WA0001.jpg IMG-20200911-WA0000.jpg

    During the week my backup KT133A socket A board turned up. It's a soltek SL-75KAV. When it arrived I realised it had a few tracks on the bottom side repaired by the Ukranian seller. Somehow I didn't see that part of the ebay listing. Slapped it together with minimal components and minimal screws with minimal expectations and it posted first try.

    IMG_20200912_122108.jpg

    Put some more screws in it, connected HDD and optical drive with my sweet original diy round cables from 2001. Optical didn't detect so I turned it off to check jumpers and....no post. Sigh. Not this shit again.

    One thing that bothered me was the original hsf I picked out was super hard up against a cap near the socket and it wasn't quite sitting square. Also I didn't bother with any thermal paste originally because I wasn't expecting it to work. I was a little worried that I might have fried the CPU given the lack of any thermal protections on the old Thunderbirds.



    The cap on the bottom left of the socket is annoyingly close.
    IMG_20200912_123817.jpg

    I managed to Frankenstein together a cooler out of parts from 2, added some paste and tried again. It fits better (though still not much room there) and at least sits square. Still no post but got the ram beep. Swapped through a few different sticks before I found a 128MB stick that worked. Eventually after more shuffling I got the original 256MB stick to register again for 384MB total out of the 1GB+ of sticks I had. Some of them look to have quite a bit of oxidation on the gold contacts so maybe they'll bounce back to life with a bit of cleaning.

    I had earmarked an older Ritmo power supply for this machine. I don't need the SATA connectors my test PSU had and the Ritmo even had AMD logos on the label so it seemed fitting, but it had some bad caps. The replacement caps arrived a few weeks ago and with the rest of the PC together and booting I worked up the motivation to swap them out. Hadn't done a PC PSU before. I was expecting heavier copper traces/planes that would trouble my iron but it was super straight forward. I'll have to come up with another excuse to get a thermaltronics.

    IMG_20200912_173956.jpg

    Finished cleaning up an old 17" LCD (I swapped my BenQ 17" flat CRT for this back in the day) and dug out some cables so I don't need to keep using the main monitors that the Mrs now uses for WFH. Also a more period-correct aspect ratio/res. Buttoned it back up with the recapped PSU, and put my original Hercules Muse XL sound card. It still posts and that's where I ran out of time.

    IMG_20200912_122613.jpg

    Bear approves.

    So the hardware in this machine is reasonably close to what I wished I had sometime in ~2001.

    Athlon 1.4GHz
    384MB RAM (will try for 512MB)
    Soltek SL-75KAV KT133A Motherboard
    GeForce 3 Ti200
    Hercules Muse XL sound card
    40GB HDD
    Samsung CDRW
    The same model generic case I had back in 2001

    Still to do:
    Throw in an RTL8139 from the pile
    Clean RAM contacts and try for 512MB
    Install OS, drivers, games, etc
    Find a couple of 5.25" covers that fit this case
    Get some PCI bracket covers
    Swap the KT7A in if it works

    Still tossing up which OS to throw on it. At the time when this hardware was new I would have been running WinME and shortly thereafter moved to Win2000 which I stayed on for ages. Win2000 would probably be the better OS but I'm pretty keen to get a Win9x OS on something soon for maximum nostalgia vibes.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  11. adz

    adz Member

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    Looking good :leet:
     
  12. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    keep up the good work :)
     
  13. hutts24

    hutts24 Member

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    THIS. The basic slotkets don't have voltage regulation. The Powerleaps are the only ones I've read about that do. A P3 can't generate its own voltage or clock signals and will send high/low signals along a combination of pins to indicate what bus frequency and voltage it wants. Some smart boards use that bus signal and just accordingly, but most will run according to the jumpers or default settings in the BIOS until overridden (if possible). Intel changed all those around when they made socket T to stop people from using Tualatins in regular socket 370 boards, so the slotkets send those signals themselves according to their jumper settings. As for multiplier, they are locked in the P3 and no amount of hints will persuade it to use a multiplier other than what is fixed into it somehow (I don't know how it is fixed but apparently it can't be changed after the chip has been manufactured).

    If your board isn't running the Tualatin, then it most likely isn't able to supply the voltage that the slotket is requesting from it. There is loads of good information here: https://www.oocities.org/_lunchbox/ .

    If the HSF isn't sitting square, then it could be you have it the wrong way around or the clip has swapped around. I have done this at least twice after removing the fan and pulling the clip out to clean the HSF.
     
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Thanks, I'll take a look!


    Pretty sure it was all good, it was just hard up against the cap so it was twisted and slightly offset on the cpu. The notch was the right way around on the socket. I think it was sitting flat but it maybe wasn't.

    Anyway, the slightly smaller heatsink solved the problem.

    Had some time this afternoon to have a tinker.

    My KT7A arrived from the states and it looks worse in person than the pics. It's taken a big hit in the first lot of shipping. The corner is crushed, there's a large power trace that's broken on the top layer. there's a noticeable curve in the board. I scraped the solder resist back and reconnected the trace but it won't POST - gives me ram beeps no matter what I try.
    IMG_20200918_183001.jpg
    IMG_20200919_183226.jpg
    IMG_20200918_182951.jpg
    It was shipped with the HSF on with nowhere near enough bubble wrap so of course it snapped the mounting lug off.
    IMG_20200920_134112.jpg

    Anyway, that was a bit of a shit way to start things off so I decided to try to make the most of what I had.
    To get the thunderbird machine running with the soltek board I had to ghetto a fan onto a thermaltake volcano 7. The volcano 7 was absolutely filthy and it wasn't just dust. It was stocky and horrible. I think it came from a smoker. The original smart fan it came with was disgusting, wires were damaged and broken. Time to strip and rebuild.
    IMG_20200920_140023.jpg IMG_20200920_144719.jpg
    Gave it a clean with some alcohol and a toothbrush. Disgusting.
    IMG_20200920_143449.jpg
    After cleaning it got a new sunon fan and it's a whole lot less gross now.

    Also spent some time repairing the GF2 GTS. Replaced the missing resistor and cap. Didn't take any photos, but they're just 0603 smd components. Kinda small but boring.
    I got a cheap hsf off ebay for it but the connector was wrong.

    IMG_20200920_144747.jpg

    Grabbed the connector and pins from Element14 and got to crimping.

    IMG_20200920_144807.jpg
    IMG_20200920_153120.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  15. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    The GF2GTS worked well enough to post. Woo.
    IMG_20200920_162432.jpg

    Unfortunately I couldn't get very far installing Win98SE or Win2k. I could boot from CD but it would either hard reset or lock pretty much straight away. I went back and forth on RAM, video card, even swapped out hard disk and optical drives and in the end it seems the culprit was my crappy DIY round cables from back in 2001. Ugh. 15 year old me sucks.

    Fresh IDE cables in and we're booting an OS install. Bear was thrilled.
    IMG_20200920_160758.jpg
    IMG_20200920_162501.jpg

    I wanted to put 98SE on this for maximum nostalgia factor but it just so happened the Win2k cd was in the drive when I replaced the cables so I went through that install process on a random hard disk and optical drive sitting on the floor next to the pc. The process went well enough but there were some graphical artifacts so the GF2GTS still looks like it has issues. I'll give it a once over under a microscope and see if I can find anything - the ram chip with damaged pins is a prime candidate.

    IMG_20200920_163906.jpg
    IMG_20200920_165137.jpg

    Anyway, at least I solved the issues and I could install and boot an OS. So after reconnecting the original hdd and optical drive and swapping back in the GF3 I could boot from the 98SE disk and get started.

    I forgot how much fun doing a full disk format was.
    IMG_20200920_174515.jpg

    Once that was done I was on the home stretch.
    IMG_20200920_180735.jpg

    And we have Win98SE installed.
    IMG_20200920_182752.jpg

    Still need some drivers but that's easier said than done.
    I went through a stack of floppy drives and cables looking for something that works without any luck. Potentially the FDD controller on this board is toast.
    Plugged in a USB stick - it was recognised but wanted drivers.
    The NIC is one of devices that needs drivers.
    So I guess I'm burning a cd for drivers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  16. ozz

    ozz Member

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    jack thats terrible, i know your pain, i had a p45 -ud3r delivered like that to me here but fortunately i just filed the corner back and luckily no traces, have a look where the cap is at the end near the board damage, to me here it looks bent like on an angle from the board drop , damage to me in the first pic, im wondering if one of the legs on the cap the solder has broken the solder joint, might pay to give it a heat with the iron and re run the solder on that cap and retry for a boot, just an obsevation and suggestion , i have a bit of stuff here for 462 socket so if you need anything and i have it then id be happy to help, just msg me and tell me what youre looking for or need :)
     
  17. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Thanks mate. I feel like the thunderbird machine has really been fighting me all the way. I forgot to mention the PSU I recapped died so it had some other issues as well. Lucky it didn't take anything else with it.

    The only thing I'm really chasing are the 2 old abit boards I had back in the day - KT7A and NF7-S. I've got soltek and asus equivalents so it's not a show stopper, but it's just a nice to have thing. I'll take a closer look at the KT7A and reflow that leg and try a few other things but right now I'm just so pissed off I couldn't be bothered. It came from ebay so we'll see what the seller has to say about his shitty packing job. Even if I get my money back from him, the international USPS shipping from my mates place to me was very steep.
     
  18. Foxster

    Foxster Member

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    I have a Zotac 8800GT Amp Edition (slimline / single slot) sitting around not doing much other than gathering dust...

    upload_2020-9-20_23-0-7.png
     
  19. ozz

    ozz Member

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    i wish you all the best with it jac, i know your pain withthis type of stuff mate only too well
     
  20. OP
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    JaC

    JaC Member

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    Ah bugger. I just got this guy delivered

    IMG_20200922_192316.jpg IMG_20200922_192310.jpg
     
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