Jumping to Sony

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by Dark Orange, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. kiwimeat

    kiwimeat Member

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    Just as Xang says you actually need to compare like with like glass. Look at the prices of the new Canon and Nikon glass for their mirrorless systems for instance, there is a premium over their other older formats.

    Going back to the A mount days Sony have pretty much always been at the premium end for glass. At SRP the A mount F2.8 trinity were a little more expensive than the Canon or Nikon equivalents, and a lot more than the Tamron versions.

    The one exception to this premium pricing was the first 18 months of the full frame A7 series when here in Australia had the best pricing in the world as Sony had lots of offers to encourage adoption and local Sony prices were comparatively cheaper than any where else in the world thanks to a stronger Aussie dollar. Then when the dollar started to fall there was a 10-20% price increase and we've been stuck there ever since.

    Meanwhile increased maturity and adoption of the A7 series has meant that Sony have eased off on the deals available for their premium gear - most sales and cash backs exclude the GM lenses and often some or all of the G series. Despite this many of those lenses are in short supply or back-ordered, indicating strong demand despite the price.

    Changing camera systems, even for professionals, is no simple exercise. You need to educate yourself and then put into practice.
    My brother converted from a true-Canon cultist (multiple generations of 5D bodies and 1D) to Sony but only after kidnapping/borrowing my A7Rii for more than 2 weeks, complaining frequently for the first week, asking lots of questions, grumbling about how his adapted Canon lenses were not working properly (MBIV). He flies a commercial 8 bladed drone and none of his control systems initially worked properly with the Sony and he needed new accessories and lots of experimentation before he was happy. Switching him to native glass has resolved many of the remaining niggling issues and he especially loves his 2470GM and the 12-24F4G. He still complains about the menu's and battery life!
    But what eventually worked for him may not work for others, especially if you are a professional and need to earn a living from this.

    I am just an amateur happy snapper that has been shooting Sony since I came back to interchangeable lens cameras with an A55 so this has been an evolving journey for me. A55 -> A77 -> A99 +> A77ii +> A7s -> A7rii -> A7Riii. I certainly never expected to end up on full frame with all this quality but expensive glass!
     
  2. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    I do not disagree, a like-for-like comparison is the logical way of doing things. The question was "Why do people say Sony glass is expensive?". And the answer is in a 50% premium over similar Canikon offerings.

    A more realistic question should be "Why is mirrorless glass so much more expensive than non-mirrorless glass" - and the realistic answer is "Because they can charge those prices and get away with it, because Sony have set the prices". Nobody is going to rock the boat while there is money to be made.

    In other more relevent news, I have been wanting to dabble in underwater portraiture for a few years now, but have put off the expensive cost of entry until I had a new body. So now I have a new body, and I have been doing some research.

    I knew that wide angle was better, and had been planning on digging out and using my old Canon 16-35 2.8L (mk-i), but the very knowledgable dude in the shop pointed out that it would be better to use native glass for better low light focussing and I can't fault that logic. That means a $3K worth of 16-35 f/2.8, and there are two housing options for this camera - the ziplock bag ($150) or the full housing ($3.5K-$4.5K).

    After a couple of weeks of contemplation and research on just how long a human body can survive on two minute noodles, I went with the third option - an a6000 body and lens ($500) and a $200 Meikon underwater housing to suit, both sourced off gumtree.

    Sure, it won't be as good as the a7Riii, but the whole setup costs under 1/10th of what is required to get my main camera up to the task, with the added advantage of being able to leave the a7Riii at home and away from salt water.
     
  3. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    you're not going to see that much of a difference anyway, and yeah Sony weather sealing is well, not that sealed :lol:

    As far as like for like - previous post covered the fact that at many levels they're comparable to the same canikon versions.

    Want to get into price gouging look at the nikon mirrorless stuff. At least their native adapter is really good.
     
  4. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    Can this be a fair comparison at least?

    The Canon 85 1.8 isnt anywhere near the same quality as the Sony 85 1.8. The aperture and focal length might be the same and that is about it.
    The Canon 50 1.4 is not the comparative lens to the Sony 50 1.4 (the 50L is the comparative lens)

    Also using pricing for Canon from Becextech (the cheapest on Shopbot) to compare to prices of Sony from Aust retailers is a bit rich. Unless I am going off different numbers? Aust Stock to Aust Stock is fair.

    I have recently done the switch and with sales and buying my purchase prices have come well under those on shopbot (24-70 just over $2k, 85GM for $1800, 55 1.8 for $925, Sigma 35 Art for $833 (I was looking at Sony 35 1.4 for $1900ish).

    EDIT: Sorry my reply was written without refreshing the thread.. but ill leave it anyway.
     
  5. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    The 50L is also significantly cheaper than the Sony offering.

    I drive a Toyota Echo that cost 1/10th of the price of the cheapest BMW on the lot. Yes, the two cars aren't comparative, but people still say BMWs are expensive.
     
  6. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    And the other person might say the Echo is just cheap. It depends where you draw a baseline.. but that is moving away from the point.

    If I were looking to buy the 50L today from Aus Stock I can find it for maybe just under $1900, and I also found a Sony 50 1.4 for just under $1900 (if you are going off grey prices, you'd have to do it for both).

    Anywho just going around in circles, I just do not think you were doing an apples and apples comparison. If I were to look at switching from Sony to Canon I honestly think there would end up being a 10-15% difference (if shopping well and taking into account some wins on some items and losses on the others).
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  7. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    I 'rolled over' my image total today, so the camera started a new directory to put images in. Unfortunately, this meant that I could only review the images in the current directory. Is there a way to change directories back to the old one to see them again, or do I have to wait until I came home and plug the card into my computer?

    In other news, my Sony 85 f/1.8 turned up this afternoon so did a few test shots. It seems to focus better in the low light, which is nice.

    For the pixel peepers - SOOC jpg

    [​IMG]
    Sony a7Riii + MC-11 + Canon 100mm f/2.0 @ f/5.6


    [​IMG]
    Sony a7Riii + Sony FE 85mm f/1.8 @ f/5.6
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  8. Pbx_Jnr

    Pbx_Jnr Member

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    are you using a hood with your 100mm Dark Orange ? It helps with the contrast when there are bright lights anywhere near it
     
  9. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    I don't use a hood at all, actually.

    Interesting to note the moire on book 3 of the TinTin series.
     
  10. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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  11. Xang

    Xang Member

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    The grip on Canon is nice, if you subjectively prefer the colours of course that's a valid point. His notes about service, 'getting the shot just as quickly', enjoying Canon presentations at conferences (wtf), Canon "put the time in to listen to their photographers and make a solid product"...delusional.

    The EOS-R was very fairly criticised as it is missing or lacking in many areas without being priced to suit...and there is no alternate option in the mirrorless product line. Sony isn't perfect but they are so far ahead of Canon + Nikon it's not even comparable in my eyes.
     
  12. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    Yeah cant say I really agree with many of those points? Or understand why they made them.

    Colour science sure, you'd think if you tested a system before switching you just .. wouldnt have switched though.

    The rest is just justifying the decision. Their portfolio is full of imagery that is heavily edited, so dont see how spending the time to get a solid foundation worked out for the new system they are using didnt solve that. It's not like the photos scream 'Canon' either, which for many who shoot the system play to those advantages.
     
  13. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    has some points but a lot of it is just fluff.
    I do agree on the ergonomics - they dont suit my hands either.
    RE service, Nikon's service center is local to me vs sending a Sony over east so that would be something that affects my choices.

    As others said, the EOS-R doesnt really offer anything apart from some interesting (expensive) lenses.
    I suspect the EOS-R mk2 will be a good camera body, after learning from their experience
     
  14. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    Hmm a service location isnt in every major city for each brand though (Canon just shut their Brisbane drop as well I think). So its not really against the manufacturer for not having one close, for me it would be more if I didn't get loaner gear whilst my gear was broken for 2 weeks. From all reports (havent had to do it with Sony yet) that they are really good about getting loaner gear whilst stuff gets done! Which is awesome, and something I was definitely going to miss about CPS.

    Did you find using a grip alleviated some of the ergonomic issues? I dont have a problem with button placement, the muscle memory for that is really quick (and love like the programmable button on a lot of the lenses). For me its a couple of finger clearance things for how I grip cameras which will just take a little bit of time to get a proper callous developed for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  15. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    I agree that the reasons presented for going back were nothing really conclusive, I am wondering if Canon offered some incentive for him to do so.
     
  16. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Yeah, hence why i qualified for "me" :)
    It also goes for out of warranty items too, its really nice to be able to drop my camera into the authorised center who can get parts, and knows what they're doing.

    The grip helped with the pinkie awkwardness, it was just general usage that irked me.
    Grip in the hand, my palm ended up getting sore after a period, finger clearance and the button layouts just didnt seem to be where i liked them.

    A lot of it is personal preference and i could get more used to it or work around but just another nail in the coffin for me.
     
  17. OP
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    Dark Orange

    Dark Orange Member

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    I have picked up an a6000 for a project, and want a cheap wide lens for it - can anybody recommend something around the 12 or 16mm range?
     
  18. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    The 16mm 2.8 pancake is cheap, its ok IQ but nothing great.
    Look at the samyang range if you can deal with manual focus
     
  19. TheBear21

    TheBear21 Member

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    Depends on definition of cheap but the Sigma 16mm is about as good as they come for a pretty good price.
     
  20. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Oh cheezus, you're good and fucked now.

    Z...
     
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