Just plain confused. NBN & Keeping number.

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by ADV, May 22, 2018.

  1. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Personally i would never consider telstra a viable choice as an ISP or VOIP provider.... but that is just me. i like flexible ISP's who do what i pay them to do, provide Internet with no restrictions and don't fudge around with my packets or block silly ports (IE 5060) etc
     
  2. GoneFishin22

    GoneFishin22 Member

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    Telstra are just way to arrogant to even try to provide any "value products" - they expect to pursue the paradigm of when they 'held a monopoly and they charge a premium for very poor value products'. Nowadays they can't even provide a stable/consistent product and they are rapidly becoming a non-entity in a competitive marketplace, sadly this may again revert to their favor when 5G rolls out.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  3. OP
    OP
    ADV

    ADV Member

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    5G will be fine.*

    *Except under the following conditions:
    - while its not raining, fog, storms, humidity
    - only when 1 person uses it at a time
    - the user does not play games
    - the user is rich
     
  4. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I haven't seen many ISPs post their VoIP configs, something something "security". :rolleyes: ABB are a notable exception, although the one ABB FTTN service I looked at recently (belongs to a friend) doesn't have a TC-1 component, the voice traffic is going as best-effort data. :confused:

    you could include the many of ISPs out there for the same points. I have to be careful about what I say as my VV considerations extend beyond those that apply to OCAU generally, but I'll just say that I would be happy to use TPG these days. I still don't like their offshored support model, but again it's no worse than many of their competitors.

    as to their CPE, I agree with ir0nhide - their HG659 is a surprisingly good performer. you really would need to be able to list some specific needs to why it doesn't do what the majority of people want.

    plus you get the advantages of ISP support for the CPE, they replace it if it dies, and as you say, they're actually not bad. it's probably not common knowledge that NBN actively works with their RSP customers to provide feedback of service performance by CPE type, so the RSP knows what is working well and what is not from a network level view. there have been several customers who have made significant improvements to their CPE performance via configuration tweaks or firmware updates, and that translates to better end user experience.
     
  5. GoneFishin22

    GoneFishin22 Member

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    Just curious ADV do you really need a VOIP or would a bundled plan with free local and national calls do the job?
     
  6. callan

    callan Member

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    Ya. ABB customer here. Their VoIP offering is very, very primitive, and not sitting inside any sort of CIR is emblematic of that: Being an RSP they should be using the facilities availed them.
    For us on a good 100/40 HFC there's enough headroom to get away with it, but on a dodgy/loaded FTTN connection or (heaven forbid) FW the glitches/pauses caused by jitter and dropped packets would get old fast.
    VoIP is fading in significance for us here anyway - I mainly had it put on for the wife: it does have it's uses but I do very little business with it.

    As the NBN is still very much a work in progress I needed proper 4G/GX failover, something not on offer in the retail NBN market (and no that crap Telstra offer doesn't count). I also do weird shit with VPN's, DNS, filtering and other - stuffs. I am far from your typical retail customer, however so your point is still valid: the advantages of sticking with the ISP-supplied equipment is clearly a support advantage.

    On a philosophical note:
    I'm old enough to remember the PMG / Telecom days: back far enough to remember ONLY TELECOM/PMG equipment was permitted to be connected to the phone lines. Such restrictions forced the use of such things as acoustic modems, and crippled innovation whilst entrenching Telco hegemony. Those days (fortunately) were far behind us, but I see this mandated "You must use our supplied gear" creeping back into the picture, and I don't like it one little bit.
    It's a bit of a "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". Melodramatic, certainly but having lived through the past I can see the same issues looming over the horizon again.


    Callan
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  7. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

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    You know, it's possible to bridge the data links to your own router while keeping the SIP on the internal ATA. This could solve the problem with more advanced networking needs. Just sayin.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    ADV

    ADV Member

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    After looking into this for a while, the general feeling was, if you are afraid of an 'unreliable connection' be that NBN or local Wifi, then replace the modem with your own, preferably NBN compliant with the latest broadcom chipset (Asus DSL-AC88U or D-Link Cobra). TPG wont allow BYO modem/router and their TPG's VoIP service.

    The VoIP is so my mum can use her 30+ year old phone number with a 'senior citizen friendly: flashes lights on call for all handsets, extremely loud ringer, and internal messaging system' multi-handset cordless phone/answering machine. There is no mobile that will do this and if there is it requires intricate knowledge of modern 'touch' interfaces.

    I think it is criminal what the Australian government have handled the NBN. A lot of senior citizens are completely at the mercy of their ISP, especially if they have no tech savvy relatives to help them and no 'senior friendly' mobile phone alternatives.

    I am aware of someone using 2 routers plus the provided modem between them, but I'm not that tech aware to do that, plus I think there were issues of double NAT? will try it out after I'm settled into NBN.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  9. bcann

    bcann Member

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    There are senior friendly mobile phones, nokia is re-releasing clones of their 3315 style phones, if all they want is a "Dumb" Mobile.

    Personally in this day and age, i don't see why they can't link as an alias, someones home phone number to their mobile so that when one rings their home number it rings the mobile to help with these sorts of issues. The trouble is home numbers are a declining revenue stream, and in <10 years i'd say apart from a certain market segment would be a very small number of folk. Hell if i didn't have kids who didn't have mobiles i wouldn't have a home number, but i feel i need it there so that if an emergency happens they can still call us from something.

    If you want to get tricky, just grab some kind of low level smart phone, migrate the home phone number to SIP and put in a SIP client on that same smart phone with her home phone number and leave it at that, you'll probably be able to find some kind of crippleware to "Dumb" the phone down so that it literally can only dial numbers and receive calls.
     
  10. GoneFishin22

    GoneFishin22 Member

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    I am confused with this point I have FTTP with TPG (bundled plan) and their router is still in it's box and was never used. I used my own modem/router (TP LINK TD-VG3631 V1) initially and then upgraded to a LINKSYS EA6900 AC1900 router for the dual channel wifi.

    I still had to consume their router as part of my plan - buy I didn't have to actually use it.
     
  11. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    If you're not using TPG's VoIP then you're fine. it's only the VoIP service that's locked to the device they supply.
     
  12. caspian

    caspian Member

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    especially when a single-call TC-1 component is free of charge on request with a TC-4 data service. all they need to do to use it is configure the correct DSCP marking at both ends to address the channel.

    it is? it's still being built, but the design is pretty stable for the moment. there will no doubt be future augmentations to new technologies, but for the moment, it is very much what it is.

    I know you're very much under the heading of "power user", but as you also mentioned - most people in that category are probably scratching their collective heads and wondering why people continue to insist on clinging to their simulated landlines. remove that limitation and the problem expressed here ceases to exist.

    I think it's more "you want all the functionality but CBF learning the slightest thing about it to help your own dumb arse, then yes you must use our supplied gear to remove as many variables as possible from our support model. oh yeah, and you'll only pay last-decade prices for your service - guess what, this helps us minimise our costs".

    I'm too tired to go searching for it, but I am sure Elvis has posted something along those lines before. we're breeding a society of people who largely have no idea how the technology that makes their lives possible works, and that anyone can still say "I'm not too good with computers" over two decades after they became mainstream-accessible (thanks, Bill!) demonstrates it.
     
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

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    the hardware is very much not the problem, it's the wetware.

    a few short years ago I was a very active eBay trader (until the fees and policy restrictions killed it) to the point where the local post office staff knew me on sight. at least a couple of mornings a week I'd front up to collect or dispatch a load of parcels, and grit my teeth at standing in line behind a set of senior citizens queuing up with their freaking for chrissake bank books to withdraw their pension. there's no way that someone like that is ever going to adopt a new technology, no matter how easy or direct-translation or intuitive you make it. they're not interested in learning anything new, regardless of the potential benefits.

    what works is putting your foot down and saying that like 2G mobiles, analogue TV, leaded fuel and unpasteurized milk, the option is gone. by all means have a cutover period, but the NBN would have been a good point to kill the concept of landline telephony altogether, and we blew it due to conceptual inertia.
     
  14. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Look I get it I really do. However I work in a client (internal facing) IT support role, so whilst I'd love to convert those I consider "luddites" by choice" to soylent green, I can't so I have a more pragmatic outlook and try to as best as I can slowly move them forward, the other option is to lose my shit and as a consequence lose my job which is obviously not an option given I work in a mostly female workforce of 50+ year old medical staff.....

    Although like your auspost example, I'd love a world where there are always 2 lanes and it's strictly enforced by soylent green conversion on the spot..... Lane 1 -- in and out as quick as possible with as little interaction as possible, and line 2 ... A gasbaggers heaven and a line that you can literally watch people age as it moves so slowly.

    If I could ditch ever having to go to an auspost store ever again I'd be on my way to be a more happy person..
     
  15. OP
    OP
    ADV

    ADV Member

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    I think I may I have misrepresented the reasons why mobile doesn't work well for my mum.

    Situation (a situation we will all find ourselves in one day)
    • My mum is deaf in one ear, cataracts, can't walk well, falls over, can't carry things around with her, can't stand well and interact with technology.

    Mobiles don't have the same function(s) as a traditional DECT cordless even with good software the actual role they play in the house is different.

    Mobiles Lack:
    1. Dedicated physical buttons (good for someone who needs tactile feedback)
    2. Multiple-handsets around the house light up when calling as well as high ringer (good for someone who can't see or hear well)
      Also, for emergencies, a cordless phone is always a few meters away.
    3. Records calls with simple recall function 'button' (good for someone who can't get to the phone in time and finds navigating a GUI just to retrieve messages too much to handle.)
    4. Stay in one place and dock upright, which makes them easy to pick up and find. (good for cognitive recall e.g 'wheres the phone? I can't find it! ... ... ... oh its in the same place it always is!"
    5. Base station dedicated physical button 'find phone' function (if the cordless is really lost the base will make it ring)
    There is probably more, but as you can see, unless a mobile phone can mimic all of those features it makes it more difficult for the elderly and disabled.

    Note: I'd love to get rid of the landline, but the change to infrastructure (nbn) has shoehorned mobiles as the end-all solution. But mobiles have always been about communication on-the-go and has never taken the disabled or elderly seriously in any of their designs.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  16. power

    power Member

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    not only that many older ppl have had their numbers for 20, 30 years or more. Landlines are getting cheaper though, my parents will be saving a fortune going from their T LL where they were getting reamed any time they wanted to do something like make national calls - now on TPG, unlimited - they are much happier. Also the parents are now both hooked on YT and Netflix through smart devices. People in rural areas have been locked out of having these experiences for way too long simply behind scummy pricing for big telcos like telstra dominating the market and penning pinching every megabyte and second of a phone call - fuck those guys.
     
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  17. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I still don't see the point when the "landline" is only an emulation designed to simulate the look and feel of POTS, but in reality without the compatibility or power-off functionality that people assume exists just because they still interact with it via the same old hardware.

    POTS is dead, people need to stop kicking the carcass.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    ADV

    ADV Member

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    Hey I hear you, but I think people will say the same thing to us, when mice and keyboards have stopped being produced and everyone is expected to use AR.
     
  19. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

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    So plug the landline phone base station into the ISP-supplied modem and be done with it. You want to have your cake and eat it too, and it's clear that this isn't an option. If your mum is a priority, then you'll have to suck it up and deal with less knobs to twiddle.
     
  20. PULS8R

    PULS8R Member

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    All you need to do is plug it in after the whizz bang mdoem/router with awesome wifi. There really isn't much to it and even double NAT won't affect VoIP.
     

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