1. OCAU Merchandise now available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion here.
    Dismiss Notice

keep your wind power the hell away from me

Discussion in 'Science' started by MrRand0m, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    They are building several 130 meter wind generaters not 2.5km from my house.

    Personally I think they are bloody useless... but I would be willing to tolerate them if it wasn't for the NOISE and SHADOW FLICKER they generate. Not to mention the electromagnetic interferance ruining my TV and mobile phone reception.

    This site has a few studies and reports into their effects. I am primarily concerned with this one:
    http://www.livinginnewyork.org/health_effects_of_wind_turbine_noise


    These things are as close to 1km from houses... should anyone need to live so close to them? I am not entirely against wind power as such (it has a very small place - well away from me!).

    I think that its 100% unacceptable that they are being built so close to people due to health and safely concerns. What do you lot think about that?

    BTW - I don't really care about the merits of wind against other forms of energy. What I care about is primarily the health and safely concerns highlighted in the link. The site details information about how noise and shadow flicker can affect people mentally - that is what I am mainly concerned about hence posting in this section.

    This website here also lists home health and safely issues associated with noise output and sunlight disruption.
    http://www.turbineaction.co.uk/wind-turbine-facts.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  2. Fred Nurk

    Fred Nurk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,228
    Location:
    Cairns QLD
    An interesting point of view indeed.

    I'd imagine that it depends somewhat on what type of turbine is installed as to how much noise it generates, but at any rate, you say they're being built 2.5kms away, which is outside the minimum distance recommended by the article that you linked.

    At that sort of distance, I'd imagine that shadow flicker, if indeed such an effect indeed exists, would not be much of an issue either.

    As for affecting TV reception and mobile phone reception, they don't really generate any more interference than other types of generation, actual noise produced is related to type of turbine, but it still can't be worse than sitting next to a diesel generator. All this without taking into account how much noise is generated by industrial loads and so on.

    I'm curious as to why you're raising these items here on an online forum, and why you wouldn't have taken notice of the planning of such a wind farm long before construction has commenced.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    i) construction has not commenced yet, they have pretty much done the plans and are doing some community consultation.

    ii) I am 2.5 kilometers away, other people are 1km away. At a height of 130 meters, when the sun is rising or setting - how bad do you think the shadow flicker will be and what distance might it cover?

    iii) I have enough trouble sleeping. I have to turn my broadband modem (which is outside my door) off at night as the transformer humming really messes with me. My mother is also a very sensitive sleeper. At night, we will hear them and i'm pretty sure that they are going to send me nuts. What about the people only 1km away?
     
  4. nux

    nux Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    16,780
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Shadow flicker will only occur when the sun is behind the turbine from where you are. Simple geometry will help you see that it is pretty much a non issue unless you are very close to it. Even then, it has to be between the sun and you.

    Noise, I don't think it will be a problem for you at 2.5km away. Try living in a city.

    As for this electrical interference and phone reception, I cannot see how it will change this one bit. Electricity is provided at 50Hz with very high tolerances, it will not change your modem 100Hz hum :lol:
     
  5. Dr feelgood

    Dr feelgood Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    Mornington peninsula
    I would take those web reports with a truck load of salt.

    e.g :
    To begin with, all measurements should be made C-weighted, not an A weighted for one measurement then a C-weighted measurment at an unstated freq for another. We need to compare apples to apples.

    The rest of it is all gobbledegook, an ordinary conversation at 1 foot is 70dB SPL not a vacuum cleaner. It is accepted that 10dB is perceived as a doubling of loudness (SPL) so the difference between 45 and 65dB is 4 times the SPL not 100, and remember the actuall measured freq' is unstated so it could well be sub audiable or it could be so low that it'd need to be in the realm of 120dB to be a problem. because the linked report doesn't report the SPL at the source there is no way of calculating the level it will be by the time it reaches a given distance.
     
  6. Fred Nurk

    Fred Nurk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,228
    Location:
    Cairns QLD
    I'd much rather rely on proven data in most cases, but I really don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of noise. In my experience, the turbines aren't actually that loud at all, indeed, the dull swooshing sound they make isn't as obtrusive as your report makes out. I've been standing at the base of a 600kW unit, lightly loaded, and the noise isn't that distinctive at all. As a matter of fact, I couldn't hear the blades from the fenceline, at least not over the noise of the wind on the site anyway.

    Having said that, I have no idea what the proposed turbines are for your site. I still doubt that they're that noisy.

    [​IMG]
    Click to view full-sized image!
    Hosted by UGBox Image Store

    Above is a picture of the turbine I visited.
     
  7. bjs

    bjs Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,877
    Location:
    SA
    The only difference between the A weighting and C weighting curves is at low frequencies. So they took two measurements of peak SPL, one using A weighting (to measure the peak SPL at higher frequencies) and another using C weighting (to measure the peak SPL at low frequencies). There is not much mystery involved.

    The '10dB is perceived as a doubling of loudness' is an approximate rule of thumb of percieved loudness, not a mathematical fact. Their statement is essentially correct as the scale is logarithmic.

    The quoted figures were measured at "over half a mile away from the Meyersdale". I guess you'd have to assume approximately half a mile, but I agree that it should have been clarified.
     
  8. Dr feelgood

    Dr feelgood Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    Mornington peninsula
    My point is they measured with one weighting and then compared it to measurements from another.


    All measurements must be standardised in order to make a valid comparison or to draw a conclusion.


    I did say it was a percieved difference not a mathimatical one. The article claims the difference between 65dB and 45dB is 100 times:

    If my mathes hasn't failed me, from 45dB to 65dB is a perceived difference of 4 times the loudness. The fact that it is 100 times the intensity does not change this, it only makes it sound worse than it is.


    What I meant was that essentially without another point of reference it is hard to predict how loud the turbines will appear for any given distance.

    I don't think we are disagreeing, we just have a different perspective on the facts.
     
  9. chip

    chip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,856
    Location:
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    Surely the noise from the WIND that'll be driving these turbines will generate more noise than the turbines themselves - especially at 2.5KM. It's not as though you'll be living in a sound-proof booth and the only noise will be the swooshing of the blades.

    The We Oppose Wind Farms group come across like stereotypical NIMBYs.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!!

    I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR HAVING TO LISTEN TO THE "SWOOSHING OF THE BLADES" 27x7

    The study basically says that sort of noise will send people nuts.

    Thats what I want information on from all you science people - basically how far will the sound travel, what sort of effect will it have on people, especially at night and how far away should these things be kept from houses?
     
  11. JonBob

    JonBob Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Look at this way, which would you prefer to be built on the site, wind turbines or a nuclear power generation plant?
     
  12. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    Beside the point but with a power plant there are zoning laws preventing them going up near houses. These things are unregulated and POSSIBLY a danger to my health and wellbeing. Apparently in the Netherlands they are considering moving away from wind power for such reasons.
     
  13. Brett

    Brett Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    3,902
    Location:
    Perth NOR
    What is your area zoned as? My bet is it isn't "residential".
    Also, wouldn't shadow flicker would only be an issue if the shadow they are casting is cast directly on your house/etc?
     
  14. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    Rural residential... again beside the point. The information I have found tells me that they are basically far too close to houses.

    I'm going to search for some more studies. I am surprised that there isnt more information out there.
     
  15. chip

    chip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,856
    Location:
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    FFS, did you actually READ of what I posted? At least quote the whole sentence:
    I've walked up to a wind farm in central Victoria (whilst driving from Adelaide to Melbourne), from about 2km away, downwind (upwind you're going to hear jack shit), and there wasn't anything audible over the noise of the wind from 2km away. The anecdotal measurements posted in the blog you linked to were taken from 'about a half a mile away" which is 800 meters and they were nothing worse than what you'd get living in any urban area.

    FWIW, there's only 24 hours in a day.
     
  16. Brett

    Brett Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    3,902
    Location:
    Perth NOR
    I suppose you'll want all the noisy wildlife moved next? Oh no, too many cows mooing.

    Personally, I think the turbine woosh is rythmically soothing.

    Where is your house in relation to the proposed turbine site? LOS? upwind/downwind?
     
  17. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    Sorry Chip, I did misunderstand you there.

    Brett if you find a turbine soothing then you can buy my house for the 30% reduced value when these things are installed :( - but again, not really my concern at this point.

    Brett, your deliberately stirring shit - noisy wildlife? It was there already. BTW - cows are farm animals not wildlife, get out of your city more often. I probably wont have line of sight to them, not sure on the wind direction.

    So chip, nothing audible at 2km - what about in the middle of the night? During the night the sound travels a lot more especially in rural areas.

    If I can't hear them at all, ever at 2.5kms away then I will be happy and have no problem with them. The visual pollution of 130 metre towering objects I can put up with in the interests if clean power, the noise (if any) I will not tolerate.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  18. Suntzu

    Suntzu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,823
    Location:
    Canberra
    The old NIMBY eh?

    Ive been within 800meters of the 15 large turbines are Carcor NSW ( near orange) and couldnt hear a fkn thing. Shadow flicker? WTF? :rolleyes:
     
  19. OP
    OP
    MrRand0m

    MrRand0m Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,810
    Was the wind blowing? Was the sun out?
     
  20. abadonn

    abadonn (Taking a Break)

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    2,362
    Location:
    melb
    a/ As usual anti-whateveritis people disseminate information about how you'll live in a sleepless nightmare and all your children will be lidless eyed encephalic mutants. Anti-Grand Prix people Albert Park in Melbourne complain that the GP causes all problems including milk curdling.
    The reality is probably far less of an issue, but if you're determined to be aggrieved then I'm sure you'll find a cause.
    Go find another wind farm and see for yourself.

    b/ You keep insisting that 'you won't stand' for it. But apart from whining on ocau I can't see what else you're gonna do. If they DO build them there and you CAN hear it then what options do you have other, than selling up (on a windless day) and moving. I know its standard for people to insist they won't stand for something, but in the the end they have little choice. Even the GP protestors gave up in the end and now limit themselves to irritated letters send to the papers each March.

    paulh

    paulh
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: