"Life on Mars: NASA unveils plans for human colonies by 2030s"

Discussion in 'Science' started by MR CHILLED, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Elder

    Elder Member

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    I've had minor issues with chainbolt in the past but personally I think language barrier and intentionally talking bullshit are both way off the mark. He's also a moderator for some sections of this forum and has been for a long time I believe, you'd like to think he wouldn't be given that position if either of these suggestions were true.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a less than perfect memory at fault in this particular case. Can happen to anyone but AFAIK chainbolt is old so that might not be helping :p
     
  2. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    is it even possible to live on mars long term if earth has an extinction event? the martians need resupplies from earth at regular intervals to survive. but would this always be the case? i think all martian resources would eventually perish due to entropy, no matter how good the recycling capabilities.

    i guess the aim is to bring mars to a self supporting space age, so that if they have to wait 1000 years for earth to become habitable again, they can return. But you would need large mining, semi-conductor factories, plastic factories. there is no oil on mars... how do you make plastics...??? all the huge industry we have now to replicate the space age on mars.

    But really, isnt earth going to be more habitable than mars or venus in most extinction events anyway? I can see we might poison ourselves with radiation or biological agents, but even then, its more habitable than mars. just wear bio suits, and/or move to antarctica. You are still better off remaining on earth!

    maybe earth will be filled with dangerous robots that hunt humans. i see this as a real danger to be frank. any misstep with future AI, even inadvertently, and this can occur. i guess this is one reason you might want to get off earth. but its still probably easier to live on earth underground. you might still have a higher change of survival than mars given the downsides of mars. Eventually you might even work out how to destroy the robots.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  3. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    Resource wise Mars seems no different to Earth although we're pretty confident it doesn't have the fossil fuels Earth does nor the ready supply of oxygen to burn them.
    Apart from any unpredictable event such as global war or asteroid collisions we've got a very long time before this planet becomes uninhabitable thanks to our Sun frying the planet.

    The fundamental challenge Mars poses is its much smaller than Earth's mass. That means its internal dynamo long ago gave out hence no magnetosphere to protect it hence no atmosphere hence high levels of radiation at the surface. Solar PV panels don't last long under those conditions, the ones on the ISS are failing faster than estimated. Anything is possible given enough energy but you're right, we don't have a sustainable energy source that could be used on Mars as yet. The energy cost to this planet to support a colony on Mars is going to be considerable and the whole exercise makes no sense if the Mars colony cannot become self sustaining.

    The other issue that I see is no matter what it'll just be humans in their current form with our current flaws inhabiting Mars. Whatever man made disasters can threaten our existence here could just as easily threaten the Martian colony.
     
  4. susmind

    susmind Member

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    Well that means it'll need money, big money.

    So if you are "young people like taking mind altering substances" for it then you need to be putting 50% of you gross annual income toward, "humans in space" to fund the cost of it.

    Otherwise it'll be happening like, "humans under the seas" or "humans on antarctica", or "fish in atmosphere" ... :confused:
     
  5. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    NASA, ESA experts insist successful Mars mission decades away.

    It's not just money. There's a notion that's crept into our groupthink that if enough "science" is thrown at a problem we can solve it. There's no certainty whatsoever that a problem even one that doesn't break any fundamental laws of physics is solvable. We don't really even today have the science to tell us what is solvable. We might at some time in the future.

    That's very true however as a species we have a problem getting inspired by goals that'll take more than a lifetime to achieve. A self sustaining colony on Mars will take generations and that means generations of support from those here on Earth.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    A stumbling block.

    "Majority of Mars' atmosphere lost in space, turning wet, warm planet cold and arid"

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-31/majority-of-mars-atmosphere-lost-in-space/8400840

     
  7. Sphinx2000

    Sphinx2000 Member

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
    sammy_b0i, adamsleath, aokman and 2 others like this.
  8. RnR

    RnR Member

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    Damn thats gorgeous!
     
  9. Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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    Sadly, Opportunity has now stopped responding and the mission has been declared finished. Designed to last just 90 Martian days and travel 1,100 yards (1,000 meters), Opportunity vastly surpassed all expectations in its endurance, scientific value and longevity. In addition to exceeding its life expectancy by 60 times, the rover traveled more than 28 miles (45 kilometers) by the time it reached its most appropriate final resting spot on Mars — Perseverance Valley.
     
  10. PabloEscobar

    PabloEscobar Member

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  11. OP
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    MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    However I'm convinced we will see another attempt at a later point.
     
  12. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    I hope it's better thought out. Just getting to Mars for a brief explore is way, way more challenging than going to the Moon and the more I read the greater the perils of going to Mars seem.

    1. Biosphere 2 was an abject failure. Sure they all survived but a small mistake would have killed all of them if it'd been on Mars where help would not be available. By the end everyone was seriously emaciated and had split into two groups that were on the brink of physical violence.

    2. The effects of long term microgravity are severe. Both an America and Russia had spent much the same extended period on the ISS and the American's accounts of the health issues he faced over a long period after he returned are most disconcerting.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scott-kelly-journey-home-year-in-space-180964408/

    What's needed is a faster way to get to Mars and back. There's several tantalising ideas being considered.
     
  13. Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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    Or maintain artificial gravity en route. Spin the habitation area like in so many science fiction films?
     
  14. RnR

    RnR Member

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    Stop being such a tease! :p

    Or keep accelerating to the half way point, and then turn around and deaccelerate. Would use a fair bit of fuel though.

    Has Elon Musk made comments on the fact that humans without gravity goes fubar? I can't imagine that an engineer hasn't raised the issue at some point in regards to their Mars plans.
     
  15. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    That's one approach however the spinning thing needs to be large or else the effect is not like gravity. On Earth the force of gravity is the same on your head as your feet. In the spinning spaceship the force is proportional to the distance from the centre of rotation. If it's small then there's more force on the feet than the head and a net effect that makes it likely you'll fall over.

    That's the concept all the ideas share, 1G for half he journey then -1G. Not possible with chemical rockets but possible with nuclear powered ion drives etc. Time to Mars would be only a few weeks and ( I guess) launches could take place more frequently than every two years.

    The only aspect of Mars I've heard Musk speak too was the radiation issue and if I recall correctly he was pretty dismissive saying he knew about it and it would take a toll. That's long term not such a massive problem, a big magnet at the Lagrange point would have the same effect as Earth's magnetic field. Then there's the possibility of habitats underground e.g. lava tubes. Musk has conceded that Mars will probably need nuclear power as the wind and dust creates problems for anything else.

    I still think the psychological problems will be the hardest to deal with. Attempts to devise a test for suitability showed nothing beyond 'humans are very unpredictable'. In any case the Moon is back in the spotlight and despite its proximity to Earth it's still no walk in the park. Rescue is possible thanks to proximity but the Moon has zero atmosphere unlike Mars which has enough to take care of a lot of the stuff that bombards it.
     

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