low level programming languages for the web

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by deepspring, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. zach

    zach (Banned or Deleted)

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    Any JVM languages meets that criteria though.

    Write in Scala, create the next twitter!

    Erlang is another option purely based on the network requirement.

    JVM-based languages aren't such a silly suggestion, you can leverage lots of performance boosts out of it.
     
  2. 3t3rna1

    3t3rna1 Member

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    One man's way is not the only way just like Node.js isn't the solution to all problems and neither is c++. Use the right tool for the job at hand, the more tools you know the higher chance your going to pick the right one.

    Define your problem correctly and the tool you use to solve it should be fairly obvious.
     
  3. azaroth

    azaroth Member

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    Anyone notice if you do a google search for node.js, the third result is the article.....

    Node.js is Cancer
    teddziuba.com/2011/10/node-js-is-cancer.html1 Oct 2011 – Node.js is a tumor on the programming community, in that not only is it completely braindead, but the people who use it go on to infect other ...


    LoL. This guy is a real hater!! Did he even optimize the search results to really nit pick at node.js?

    If that was the case (i doubt it), surely we'd be border-lining psychotic :)

    But anyway, I don't mind the man's articles. Sorry - this post wasn't constructive, but i'm keeping my eye on this thread as it's quite interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  4. Remote Man

    Remote Man Member

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    Fucking gold.
    I like this guys style, I wrote a csv to database uploader that used sed and isql I should have manned up and skipped all the php around it.
     
  5. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    OK , back to the OP's question.

    Short answer: it doesn't exist. All of those things are typically programmer "I want to have my cake and eat it too" type requirements. You *are* going to have to compromise on more than one of those, no questions asked.

    Java containers (Tomcat, JBoss, etc - even Jetty if you hate yourself) tick all of those boxes, with the exception maybe of "tiny memory footprint" (depending on what you are doing with it, and what your definition of "tiny" is).

    If you're really wanting to squeeze it all on to a very small system, then you're only real choice is going to end up being some sort of http+FastCGI implementation to C/C++ or (yeah, I'm going to say it) Perl.

    I guess the real question here is, how much memory can you get on these devices? You can do a hell of a lot with BSD, Tomcat and 512MB of RAM. Even more with 1GB. Is this the realm of what you are talking about, or are we talking sub-256MB devices?
     
  6. OP
    OP
    deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys.

    After some playing around, I think I've settled on using the "Go" programming language from google.

    I suppose I can tell some of what I'm trying do...

    Basically I'm trying to see if I can build a cloud using mainly low cost, low energy devices (like the Raspberry PI "b" board).

    I already know someone on here has already built something similar some time ago using VIA or Intel Atom systems (can't remember which). The main difference between my little experiment and that one, is the fact that I'll be using 10 sub-256MB RAM ARM processors, $5 SD cards, and a highly customized operating system with a cut down, optimised kernel stack and custom C/S software.
     
  7. Taceo Corpus

    Taceo Corpus Member

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    I can build a cloud using a coolroom, a kettle and some good old h2o. It's called fucking condensed water vapour.

    Seriously, is there anything less meaningful than "I'm building a cloud"?
     
  8. xsive

    xsive Member

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    lol. OP paranoia is through the roof :p
    Seriously deepspring, most programmers won't give a damn about your project; either due to apathy or because they're too busy working on their own pet projects. Besides which, successful startups (assuming that's where you're intending to go) are not measured on the worth of their ideas but on the effectiveness of their implementation and the ability of their founders to sell it to people.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Your post is pretty meaning less, so I would say it's a good candidate... :lol:

    Ok... So my idea isn't very original, but it is different.

    I'm looking at building a small low cost server cluster and a distributed server/client package to serve up web sites from a SAN. Now, I know that people are already doing this with some very expensive hardware... But my budget is a measly $2400 over 24 months.

    Software wise, I'm not exactly stuck for choice when it comes to free and light server packages. But, by writing my own, I'm hoping to learn something new about myself.
     
  10. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    I don't believe you actually know what you're trying to build.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Enlighten me. What is so difficult about what I'm trying to do?
     
  12. Taceo Corpus

    Taceo Corpus Member

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    For the purposes of my own entertainment, I'm going to list the absurdities as I see them and give a brief overview of why I consider them absurd.

    distributed server/client package to serve up web sites

    Right. So a web server with a proprietary browser that will presumably implement something like webkit, which means it'll be directly competing with the Big Four and only works on certain websites.

    small low cost server cluster
    To do anything useful, choose two of small, low cost and server cluster. You can have something small and low cost, but it won't be a useful server cluster. You can have a useful low-cost server cluster, but it won't be small. You can also have a small server cluster, but it won't be low cost.

    small low cost server cluster to serve up web sites from a SAN
    Essentially part two of the above. If you're going to spend money on a SAN, why would you care about a drop-in-the-bucket saving on a "small low-cost server cluster"?

    I'm fairly certain that you have no idea as to what you're actually trying to make, since you're saying all the right words, but they don't make any sense.
     
  13. Zoltag

    Zoltag Member

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    Its not different.

    You are trying to become a webhost without paying big bucks for enterprise-grade hardware.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    What?! Where and how did you get that idea from what I've posted?!

    I'm looking at doing this on my own for my own challenge, not for commercial use. That's hilarious man. :lol:

    Lot of baseless assumptions here.

    1. I'm talking about the servers acting as both a client and server using custom software so they can communicate with each other. Not designing a flipping webkit web browser.

    2. I'm looking at computing fractals or primes or something else equally mundane, not the next planetary alignment to within two millimetres or something equally drastic. Edit: Given that a single 700MHz 32bit ARM processor is the equivalent of a Intel P2-300MHz processor, what I have in mind is a fair amount of computing power. Half the computers serving up F@H packets have less power than that. Edit: I will be serving up web pages, but of results and log data.

    Edit:
    3. I admit that my aspirations of SAN are little convoluted, may be I should have said I was going to use a NAS instead, which come fairly well within the budget.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  15. Taceo Corpus

    Taceo Corpus Member

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    I'm sorry. My puny mind failed to make the obvious mental leap from your original statement of "a small low cost server cluster and a distributed server/client package to serve up web sites from a SAN" to computing fractals or primes or... You get the picture. You couldn't define your implementation to begin with and-

    Hang on, so you're being all obscure and secretive about a project that has no commercial aspirations at all? Why the paranoia mate? Are you afraid someone is going to do it before you so your personal project never gets off the ground? Here was me thinking you were afraid of someone taking your business plan. :rolleyes::thumbup:
     
  16. Zoltag

    Zoltag Member

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    Well, excuse me for reading this:

    And thinking that you want to build a low cost webhosting system.
     
  17. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    Why all the hate, he wants to learn, help him learn, don't be a douche bag about it.
     
  18. Taceo Corpus

    Taceo Corpus Member

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    He wants to learn but isn't giving us any useful or meaningful information as to what he wants to do. It looks as though he doesn't know what he wants to do. That's why all the hate. If he just came out and told us, we wouldn't be quite so irate.
     
  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Have you started writing code? How are you finding the memory footprint?
     
  20. OP
    OP
    deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Thanks for the support. :D

    I want to learn how to do the following:
    • Learn about enterprise level network infrastructure, but on a small scale using hardware I can afford.
    • Learn how to make such a network communicate in an efficient manner.
    • Compile and optimise a linux/BSD distribution from scratch for the above.
    • Write a custom web server software to serve up random Mandlebrot Fractal "seed" data in the form of an XML file.
    • Write custom client software that computes the Fractal seed data and converts the results into an image and serves it back to the main server when it is done.
    • Use a NAS in place of a SAN (because I realised that I have no hope of ever affording a real SAN) to store the data.

    How much information do you need?

    Not as yet. I'm still investigating the hardware side of things I'm trying to decide on which board I'm going to use for coding. I.e.: do I wait for the cheap Raspberry Pi "B" boards to come out? or do I buy any one of these:

    I've never tackled a project this big before, as you can see from my thread history I've only ever tackled small projects/hacks/fixes in a couple of languages (Python, C, PHP5...).

    I'm working three jobs, so time is at a premium for me at the moment, so is money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012

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