Discussion in 'PC Games' started by Philll, Jul 22, 2010.
for some reason thought of this immediately!
I'll be kind here. Have you ever played multilayer quake or CS on the PC?
The time delay differences we are talking about here are veritable hours
We are talking about the time to do something simple, like turn 180 degrees.
Remember precision is sort of a function of input device response & sensitivity time + player skill/reaction. It's the time that is the big difference here. In 1 second an average PC player can "do" a lot with a mouse and keyboard. I'm talking like spin around a couple of times maybe get a kill in front and behind etc...
With a controller you would get what done in 1 second? Not much. You could speed up the input sensitivity, but then you wouldn't be able to hit shit.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, that with a mouse and keyboard the inherent precession in the device, is so much higher than a controller that it allows the input sensitivity to be run, what... like 10 times faster than a controller?
To the controller gamer the difference between the two input types, from a casual observation, probably looks like nothing. And we are probably talking sub one second differences here. But to someone "tuned" to a mouse and keyboard speed of play, a controller feels like you have been dumped in a game with a atmosphere consistency of thick honey.
The result of this is that console combat games are usually front facing combat only. With a little bit of up and down.
Where as something like quake 3 on the PC would see you getting railed in every orifice from every direction - up down front back left right.
Or "every which way from Sunday" as someone said above
I remember when I was a Massive fan of Counter Strike for the original Xbox live service..... Thats before I had hair on my chest and No Money for a Awesome PC.
Steam now rules my life.
you can aim on console FPS ?!?!?!?!?!
I thought the aiming was done for you and you just needed to move and shoot
SO TRUE! I always go to my mates and end up playing MW2 on his PS3 and its torture.
But one thing that amazes me is these Youtube videos of guys on consoles playing on "insane" sensitivity. Like how the fuck man...
Yes I have played those, and I understand your point about the sensitivity and turning around, I however am one of those people who play with high sensitivity, both console and PC and while I can't say I'm great at either, I'd hate to have to lift my mouse and put it back in the middle because I'd turned one way (seen it done) low sensitivity gives you that aiming precision, but who stands still?
Also, console games are designed to be forward facing? Are you taking the piss? Not arguing, some there are but no more than the pc stuff.
It's just a different type of input, as long as the sensitivity is high enough to allow you to maneuver sufficiently, I can't see a problem getting used to one type of control over another.
I can see how left at standard most games you can't spin fast enough though. I've also seen that a lot of the time if the opponent is doing it right, you won't get time to spin no matter how fast you are. This is not always the case though and that is invariably your point and the whole reason for being able to do so.
As for an average pc gamer being able to DO a lot in 1 second, this is what I'm talking about when I asked what people thought about the "pro" console players not having had to develop those skills as their opponents were no better. The "average" console gamer being of a far lower skill level than the "average" pc gamer.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't fired up my 360 in ages, just trying to say that it's maybe not 100% the controller's fault. While admitting that I could not do any better!
EDIT: I think we are basically saying the same thing, I was just asking how much could be put down to the user in either circumstance. Still no reason for them not to implement the crossover in the first place, people adapt, it could be interesting to see.
The way I see it is that a mouse can get the crosshair from point A to point B faster than the controller can, and more accurately too. For the controller, you need to make far more deliberate movements to move the crosshair, whereas a mouse picks up all the tiny movements you make.
Then there's the keyboard. It allows for a player to do far more things at once than you can on a controller unless you hold it upside down or something. For example, using the mouse and keyboard combo, you can run, jump, aim and shoot all at once very easily. The controller, however, due to the layout, means you can't aim and jump at the same time (Unless the person changes the layout [I'm still not sure if this is a normal thing on consoles, I try to avoid them]).
The capped aiming speed and button layout of the controller is the reason why console gamers will continuously get shafted against PC gamers in FPS games.
There are a few people that can play with the sensitivity on high/insane on a controller.
I think it is harder to master a controller on insane sensitivity than it is a mouse, so all things equal i think the mouse player would always have the advantage over the joystick. IE: best player on controller in the world vs best player on mouse.
Me personally, im a low sens player on both mouse and joystick. The difference is on the mouse i can still spin 180degrees in an instant, just have to move the mouse 5cm for eg. Where on joystick no matter how fast i push the stick to the left, im limited to the sensitivity it has
I already assumed this was the case when they didn't bother with it again after Shadowrun. Never played shadowrun but I can imagine playing something like COD against the xboxers.... I'm not exactly looking forward to console kids being back on PC turf with Portal 2.
I think there's a huge number of people that don't realise just how much aim assist / auto aim helps them when aiming with a gamepad, and how shit of an experience it would be without assists.
I play all multiplatform shooters on PC because I really don't like the concept of 'assists' - I'll aim for myself thanks!
I was referring to myself
I've always turned off autoaim, although I think doing this still leaves some kind of autoaim on, sometimes shit just doesn't do what you want it too. Even going back to the days of goldeneye you had to turn off autoaim to look the way you wanted.
I agree with what you are saying and I'd like to know just how much the autoaim helps, or hinders.
Controllers aren't that hard. They just take practice. Its getting used to the analogue stick requiring a return-to-zero action to change direction rapidly. Console FPS has come a long way, employing accel techniques and sticky aiming. Its not so bad.
There's only three genres off the top of my head that a MKB is superior for (FPS, RTS, MMO). Even then, the keyboard is more of a compromise with FPS; an analogue stick would be far superior for movement then WASD. Every other genre is better served with an analogue stick and buttons instead of keys and mice.
It has to be a compromise. Controllers are superior for the majority of genres and gametypes.
Both sides of this argument are completely ignoring the overwhelming market trend towards motion controlling and sensory tracking. In the coming five to ten years, as games become more immersive (and expensive to make), and technology converges further, input methods like the mouse and controller will seem utterly archaic.
Quake 3 on dreamcast could play against PC players.
So was I, it was a grammar edit on myself
pro Q3A - PC
couldn't find any decent pro gaming console fps gameplay.
I really dont see this happening.
couldn't agree more with some of the rebutts, not all console games revolves around cod and shooters which require pin point accuracy.
controllers excell in other regions like sports, racing, and fighting games.
The thing is controllers are fine. I get through GTAIV no problems, in MGS4 I don't miss at all. But you aren't even encouraged to get good at using them because you can press another button and all axis of movement are taken care of in a split second.
yes but that's unfair because Pro quake players are fucking insane.
.../ just need to make me some kinda fast giant robot, bribe a quake player to control it and take over the world muahahaha.