MiSTer FPGA (computer/console/arcade hardware simulation)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by elvis, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=38086

    Hey elvis are you running a second user name ?

    Why do i ask ? you say
    Mostly because of these words :)
     
  2. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm "elvisa" on there. But regardless, I'm glad others are saying this.

    There's a little elitism in the FPGA community over software emulation. But they forget that software projects have 20 years experience with dealing with a fast growing project that is made up of complex modules and files.

    Mention MAME and the hardcore guys will just snub the discussion. Meanwhile MAME continues to help even original hardware collectors diagnose problems and fix real boards thanks to its accuracy and organised database.

    I have faith that MiSTer will become more like MAME in time. My only frustration is that we have to go through a cycle of people denying we need it, figuring out that it is needed, and then claiming they invented it. Such a waste of time.
     
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  3. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    Yer, I'd seen you before.
    I saw that thread and had a giggle. I thought you might appreciate the sentiment of a kindered spirit :D

    More importantly though, the OP is working on an IREM m62 core.
    Thats Moon Patrol right ?
     
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  4. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    couple of questions without delving into the last 34 pages -
    1. are there any frontends for mister? ive got a full hyperspin setup and its great...my kids love it too, would be great if i can use it to push roms over to mister somehow.
    2. is there a new hardware revision coming? or is this current one more than quick enough for anything?
     
  5. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    1 just the one in the box. its basic as all hell. sorglig is the guy behind the project, he has no interest in a frontend for MiSTer at this time. but someone might just make one, you never know
    2. there are better FPGA's, but the MiSTer project is all about the DE-10 nano for now. Only time will tell when everyone jumps to a newer platform. the biggest advantage for the DE-10 is the low low (comparative) cost

    edit - if you're into the older games on arcade, console, micro, and want the best non-original hardware experience, you should definitely get one. leave the kids with the emulation, they're unlikely to care about lag as much as a middle aged man-child
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  6. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    Anyone else watch amore2600 on YT ?
    For those that dont know, hes the guy that gave jotego the 1943 arcade board to work on. Very generous person in the MiSTer scene. Or behind it, it would seem.
    Anyway he just posted that a highscore on TG was broken on a MiSTer setup.
    ColecoVision Gyruss old record was 307600 now a monster score.
    Not sure if it counts as an official score.
    But MiSTer is gaining some notoriety now
     
  7. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm not even sure what drives the MiSTer UI. I have a feeling it's on the FPGA side, not the Linux side, so I'm not even sure if a third party frontend like HyperSpin or whatever could "drive" MiSTer (i.e.: tell it what cores and ROMs to load).

    The current DE-10 Nano is heavily subsidised by Intel, which is why it's so cheap. A comparitive FPGA without subsidies would be around double the price at this point, putting other dev boards in the $400+ range for a setup.

    As it stands, the DE-10 Nano is assumed to be powerful/large enough to handle PlayStation 1. MegaCD, SNES, GBA and NeoGeo are currently the largest / most complex systems on there, but there's plenty of room to go bigger (just waiting on clever people to make VHDL cores of these, which is no small feat).
     
  8. flain

    flain Member

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    1. Not yet but someone has been working on one - http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=38109&start=25#p390248
    It's a bit of a contentious topic, there are a lot of people in the MiSTer community that seem to want to keep it as far away from emulation as possible. Probably because there seems to be a large proportion of people in the community that prefer to buy real hardware over emulation and they see MiSTer as a way to get a hardware based solution closer to the physical stuff they've been collecting. (slippery slope type thinking?)

    2. This may happen in future but if they decided on a new platform today it would probably be 12+ months before everything was ported across without quirks and bugs. With FPGA the memory types and IO on the board has been plumbed in manually in the cores, it's not as simple as recompiling a piece of software. There is a MiSTer framework but it still isn't as easy as porting some software that's written at a higher level with abstraction layers you can leverage. Also if a bigger faster one came along it would have no impact on the quality of the systems already implemented today. It's not like raspberry Pis where more CPU helps it - once you have a 100% cycle accurate FPGA implementation of say a SNES then it's done, adding more power doesn't change anything.
     
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  9. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Ignoring the "we hate emulation" elitism that irks me no end, that thread sure is full of paranoid types.

    The "writing to a log file and remembering my last played ROM is scary" post is a new level of paranoia.
     
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  10. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    was it a piss take ? i had to laugh at that comment

    I hadn't seen that post. thanks for pointing it out
    previously Sorg had been *very* against the idea.
    maybe he's softening up a bit now there's a lot of extra devs jumping in ??
     
  11. flain

    flain Member

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    I'm not sure he's against the idea, i think he's just against people asking for him to do things instead of implementing them on their own (even though people aren't always asking him specifically to do something it sometimes seems like he's taken it that way). From reading the forums he seems to be fine with people developing whatever they like but pushes back on people requesting things. I can't blame him though - if you look at the sheer amount of commits he has done on the github it's insane compared to anyone else.
     
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  12. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    wow, reading those threads...its either for or against a pretty ui.

    "Please don't turn the MiSTer into some kind of spy device. I don't want any logs of what I play or anything else. Even the "Recently played" feature makes me a bit uncomfortable and I hope that it will always be optional."

    wow.
     
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  13. flain

    flain Member

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    The thread was created by jotego - he is a major core developer for MiSTer and he owns arcade cabinets (he has posted pics of him with cabs). So most likely some kind of frontend will eventually happen despite a few naysayers in the forums because the current menu isn't arcade cab friendly :)
     
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  14. shredder

    shredder Member

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    The weirdest thing in that thread for me:

    Some guy who's gone to the trouble of thinking about and uploading a forum avatar so that his posts have a little identifying picture next to them, and who also clearly cannot possibly understand how anyone could advocate or want the unnecessary fluff of having little identifying pictures within the MiSTer universe, or it seems, philosophically in general.

    But, avatar.

    People are weird little hypocrites. (says the person)

    I understand the paranoid people; I mean it's weird but it's pedestrian.

    It's the blatant and simple internal incongruities within people (and which they seem blind to) that do my head in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  15. Andrew_Wong

    Andrew_Wong Member

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I don't. If that dude is so paranoid, he can pull the network cable out.
     
  17. shredder

    shredder Member

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    What I mean is, I acknowledge paranoia as a faulty fear function. Being based in the inbuilt animal instinct of fear. As such I can rationalise the identified mutation.

    There's no instinct behind dumb internal inconsistency however. It's just plain dumb. The lack of basic self-awareness to make the link between the little optional graphic for this, and the little optional graphic for that. The inability to port over logic to parallels. The blindness to all the connections that are right there in front of their dumb faces.

    Grrr! People! Too early in my day to be talking about them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  18. Grant

    Grant Member

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    I guess the actual act of playing games is intimate enough for some people that it becomes a thing for paranoia to latch onto. Seems silly from the outside, but a log of your game-playing history is in some ways like a secret journal, and some people would never physically write a secret journal for fear of it being discovered.

    I hope this is a case of the minority being noisier than the majority, and that there isn't any real resistance to anyone contributing the feature. But if there's even a minority that want certain features disabled, it would be nice to support that.
     
  19. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    From what's indicated by the thread in question at least, the response was that "quality of life" feature addons will improve, but will always remain optional.

    "Remaining optional" was more about limiting writes and keeping MiSTer more "hardware like". But regardless, that should keep the paranoid types happy enough to disable anything useful.

    Regardless, not a single emulator setup I've seen has ever forced people down a specific path. I still launch MAME games from the command line, because I'm a big old command line nerd. Others use RetroArch, others HyperSpin. At no time did anyone get forced to use an interface they didn't want to use. I think a lot of people lose sight of what the power of open source is, in a world where our GUIs are dominated by Microsoft/Apple/Google and have almost zero configurability.

    This post brought to you from my Linux desktop, with choice of hundreds of desktop environments and infinite configurability. As computing should be.
     
  20. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    To save everyone the trouble of going through the FPGA documentation (which is voluminous), do we know anything about the write cycle limitations of the logic cell array?
     

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