MiSTer FPGA (computer/console/arcade hardware simulation)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by elvis, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. michal

    michal Member

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    Wish I had a house.
     
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  2. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    wish i had two MiSTer's :)
     
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  3. michal

    michal Member

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    Wish I has a MiSSus.
     
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  4. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I have 6 arcade machines, and I'm considering a MiSTer for each...
     
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  5. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    wow :O
    converting any of the six to something else along the way ?
     
  6. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    There's a mix of real arcade PCBs, emulation and consoles in the existing ones. Kinda happy with what's there now, but that will change dramatically once a CPS1, CPS2 or DoDonPachi MiSTer core drops.

    I have a MAME-powered Neo Geo cabinet. That one is primed for a MiSTer replacement, although honestly I don't play it as often as I should.
     
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  7. michal

    michal Member

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    I have a problem.. I have my new heatsinks.. I have my new thermal adhesive...

    But the old heatsink I stuck on with it's old adhesive seems to gave bonded to the FPGS so strongly that I can't remove it.. I'm afraid I'll break something..
    Any suggestions?

    OH GOD!! Finally got it off!!

    It took the Altera logo with it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  8. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    well for next time you are removing a heatsink.

    normally just running a cpu chip hard will make enough heat to soften any thermal goo.
    or even turn a hot air gun/hair dryer to the heatsink will do the same.
    just be carefull when you grab it. it will burn your fingers :)
     
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  9. darknebula

    darknebula Member

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    Watching the CPS1 updates on twitter is giving me serious FOMO. I think a Mister will have to go on the birthday list this year
     
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  10. michal

    michal Member

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    I actually had run it all day and it WAS warm.. But that old adhesive still worked so damn well.. Almost as if heat made it bond more.

    The new 3M adhesive certainly seems like that,, One side has good grip the other has almost no grip.. but when you stick it down, compress it and heat it.. Suddenly it sticks.
    And this new heatsink gets WAY hotter, which is a good thing..
     
  11. darknebula

    darknebula Member

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    I'm starting to wonder whether i should be looking at Mister now instead of PC emulation for my mame project. Although i do have a pile of 3rd, 4th and 6th gen i5/i7 systems. Just seems like Mister is going to provide the better experience.

    Is MISTer any easier than a PC when it comes to connecting CRT monitors?
     
  12. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    i think MiSTer would be lucky to cover 10% of what PC emulation can do, so it would depend on what you want in your project.

    MiSTer isnt user friendly imo, so the usability factor for friends/family is very very low when compared to emu station and retro arch

    MiSTer has some strengths, but I'd say elvis will be able to better sum up pros and cons than me, so I'll defer to him for that
     
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  13. flain

    flain Member

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    Probably one of its strengths because you just plug a crt into its vga port. It’ll output raw unprocessed video like the original hardware. You can do the same with groovymame on a PC and a video card with vga out but MiSTer requires less effort in this particular use case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Great comments from MUTMAN and flain above. I 100% agree that it's a case of "pros and cons", and that no option out there is better or worse. Here's my list.

    ==========================================

    MiSTer Pros:
    * Built in support for 15KHz (240p/288p) displays - plug straight in to almost any CRT TV or monitor of that era
    * Excellent zero-lag line doubler and simple plug in for 31KHz (480p/576p/VGA) analogue - plug straight in to any VGA/SVGA CRT of that era - works for old and new titles just as easily
    * Excellent scaler for HDMI and high res displays - HDMI and off you go, straight out to your big telly in the living room
    * Near perfect image quality from analogue RGB, analogue component, or digital displays (often cleaner video than the original systems due)
    * Low to no lag depending on your display choice
    * Good array of 8 and 16 bit console and micro computer support
    * Growing list of early 80s arcade supported, but not a huge list

    MiSTer Cons:
    * Accuracy in general is good, but some cores are still pretty poor. Things are improving fast, but its early days
    * Relatively user friendly to fire up and play. Somewhat confusing to update
    * Limited games and systems outside of the 8/16 bit era
    * DOS support is currently pretty terrible
    * Little support for system/game enhancements in the cores/engines other than what IPS/hex-editing/"Game Genie" codes can do

    ==========================================

    Emulation Pros:

    * Huge array of systems and games available - almost anything you can think of, new or old, arcade/computer/console/other, far surpassing MiSTer
    * Development is pretty mature, and a huge chunk of history is already preserved
    * Enhancements to improve on the old systems - 3D acceleration, realtime machine language translations, higher res internal rendering, higher res output, etc
    * Tools like RetroArch make updating and using the systems easier than in the past
    * Video scaling enhancements like GPU shaders to dramatically improve how old pixel art scales up on sharp digital displays
    * Wide variety of solutions from Raspberry Pis to high end gaming PCs to pre-bought systems from AliExpress including handhelds
    * Lots of community hardware like special keyboards for older systems, light gun support, etc
    * 31KHz/480p/VGA analogue support is pretty easy still, even on modern systems
    * 15KHz/240p analogue display is possible with certain hardware/software

    Emulation cons:
    * Lag is noticeable, particularly on 8/16bit titles designed for frame-perfect gameplay
    * Some newer systems need a beefy PC to emulate them
    * Accuracy can be pretty low at times. Even the best emulators have a few flaws that may or may not bother you.
    * Connecting to a 15KHz/240p display is doable but difficult on certain hardware

    ==========================================

    Real hardware pros:

    * Nothing is as accurate as the thing itself
    * Zero lag on an era-matching display
    * Flash cart, hardware and software modding development in 2020 is pretty good for most mainstream stuff
    * Nostalgic feelz from touching old hardware
    * Certain hardware (especially older consoles) are literally plug and play.

    Real hardware cons:
    * Can get *really* expensive
    * Flash carts are great, but one per system is costly
    * Connecting old systems to new displays is easier than before thanks to community hardware, but again gets quite expensive (and can be a bit complex)
    * Hardware breaks, needs soldering/electronic skills to fix/repair/mod
    * Certain systems spat out ugly video, and need modding to improve the video quality
    * Not particularly user friendly depending on the audience and hardware (LOAD "*",8,1 what? Press play on tape what?)

    ==========================================
     
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  15. okclock123

    okclock123 Member

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    From all the downsides of emulation I would say lag is the most annoying. Some classic games are hard to beat when output doesn’t match input. Needless to say if you intend to play something like Snatcher or a turn-based JRPG input lag is not that important and emulation is fine. I can even connect a VGA monitor to a modern PC via a USB-C to VGA adapter and have a CRT experience with emulation on a modern PC. There are certain developments like predictive input in latest builds of retroatch to alleviate some of the lag, but it’s not a silver bullet.

     
  16. power

    power Member

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    ok, going to stop you here.

    WHY!?
     
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  17. okclock123

    okclock123 Member

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    Basically because of this video:

    But also because I just like to fool around with tech and try out various options for emulation, real hardware and weird combinations of both.
     
  18. power

    power Member

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    NO, the USB-C bit.
     
  19. okclock123

    okclock123 Member

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    Supports higher resolutions so I can try out modern games with hi-res on a CRT: https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1171767574704644096
    There are also mentions of this issue in other videos from Digital Foundry, but I didn't save any links.
     
  20. power

    power Member

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    I would never have thought of using that over dvi/hdmi-vga.
     
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