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Moving to mirrorless... (5D vs XT1/A7R2)

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by Modafroman, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    The real benefit of the sony is it gives you options
    If you want light, pack a native prime, if you want ultimate IQ/zoomage etc then you can take your heavier glass
     
  2. mrthong

    mrthong Member

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    OP can also just keep his current canon lens and just adapt them to the sony. wouldve choosen the XT1, but itll be a costly move, having to re buy lens etc. why not just cheap your current lens and adapt? moving to XT1 would be an ideal choice if you wernt heavily invested into canon already.
     
  3. djdude1010

    djdude1010 Member

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    I'd say because with a 24-105 f4 + adapter, the thing would only be ~100grams lighter than the 5Dmkiii (1.4KG vs 1.5KG with same lens) not exactly 'travel' size. plus think about it, a 77mm lens diameter is not small.

    and that setup will cost you $2K + adapter + another compact lens if you want it to be useful as a travel/light camera.

    Equivalent setup for the X-T1 you're looking at $1400 with the 18-55 f2.8-4 OIS and that will weigh a total of 720g, with damn close IQ if your not counting pure MP or not a FF snob.

    Not trying to sound like a fanboi, the Sony definitely has better IQ and low light performance, but if it was me, I would prefer to have 2 setups and keep my 5DIII for serious IQ and my Fuji for Travel/Light Days. Rather than hoping 1 system "might" do it all, Horses for courses I say.

    (side note, are you really happy putting $2K L glass through a ~$100 adapter, on a $2K plus body? This for some reason doesn't sit right with me, has to be some IQ degradation)
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  4. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    No IQ issues, AF can be a different matter though
     
  5. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    Sort of... Fuji's 10-24 it's about the same size as canon 17-40, so no benefit. And it would be a mistake IMHO because fuji makes that 14/2.8 which is a reason in itself to buy into the system, it's so good. Small, super fast to focus, as sharp as it gets and virtually distortion free, and has an awesome focus ring for various manual techniques. Add the 18-55 which is very light and probably the best kit zoom around and the 35/1.4 which weighs nothing and has that cute rendering, and you have a tiny kit that screams to be traveled.

    With any Sony A series and the Loxia 21, Sony 55 and Batis 85 you'd blow Fuji out of the water. But it would cost you, their standard zoom options kind of suck, and Sony's UI is really something you need to try before you buy because a lot of people simply cant stand it. That goes for Fuji too, are you sure you want to bring the camera down just to change shutter speed?
     
  6. FranchiseJuan

    FranchiseJuan Member

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    You do know that with both the Fuji XT10 and XT1 you can just put the shutter speed dial to T and use the front dial (under the shutter button) to adjust shutter speed right? It is very intuitive.

    Both Sony and Fuji have cash back on at the moment (as do Olympus) so it is a good time to buy, especially Fuji which has cash back on most of their lenses, bringing a XT10+18-55+27 kit down to less than $1200 after cash back.
     
  7. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    oh damn, my camera has a front dial :shock:

    No seriously, I didnt know, I bought this camera specifically for those top dials and thats all I use. Still it is a true problem for people who skipped SLRs and started straight with DSLRs, they find Fujix counter intuitive because they need to look at the top too much.
     
  8. djdude1010

    djdude1010 Member

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    It took me 2 weeks to find it as well, didn't know, then I put my finger on it one day, and it blew my mind... :p discovered it also lets you change shutter speeds between the preset speeds on the dial.
     
  9. FranchiseJuan

    FranchiseJuan Member

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    I always have the shutter speed in A, and only change it when I am shooting with lights.

    Give some people a camera that handles like a camera and not a computer, and they just spaz out!!!!

    Also as much as I think the Sony (especially the A7R2) will give you better image quality, do you really need more than the 16mp the Fuji can give you? What do people do with the photos that requires more than 12mp?
     
  10. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    Tell me about it... I was definitely good from 12mp, especially since lens designers got so much processing power these days that sigma can design a cheap lens that will give canon a run for their money. 12mp + modern lens = good enough for me.

    But, I look at whole photos only. I don't see the point of doing anything else, even when there is a massive print I move back so I can see the whole thing. Most people however want to zoom in on their monitors, I have no clue why, but they seem to enjoy it, so...

    For me, color and tonality aesthetics is way more important and in that regard Fuji has tons more experience than Sony, Nikon and Canon combined. Kodak was pretty awesome as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  11. djdude1010

    djdude1010 Member

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    Ha, true that.

    Cropping mainly, gives you more options in post and also compression of Higher MP into a lower Resolution will generally give you better IQ results.

    Plus it's probably more about the higher ISO performance, and just that FF DoF/Bokeh
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  12. FranchiseJuan

    FranchiseJuan Member

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    What I meant to say was that a 4K monitor is 8mp and I am still selling images from my 20D through the stock agencies without customers complaining. It is better to take an extra couple of seconds to think about the image, and get it right in camera then to spray and crop. You end up with better images.

    I do concede the High ISO thing, but with testing showing that the A7sII having comparable ISO performance to an A7RII, I am not sure what Sony is doing really.
     
  13. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    Yeah it's even questionable if more megapixels actually capture more detail
    Check out what this guy says for a couple of minutes, he is the engineer who invented the CMOS sensor:



    "the force of marketing is greater than the force of engineering"
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  14. BGH

    BGH Member

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    I'm glad this thread exists because I am currently in the midst of tossing up between a Canon 5D vs an X-T1/A7ii.

    I currently have a 5D2 with the 17-40, 24-105 and a few primes. I mainly use my camera for travel photography and with the wealth of smaller/lighter alternatives these days it is real tempting to switch. Although the lenses I have cover most focal ranges and scenarios, due to the way I travel I pretty much keep one lens on the body 90% of the time so I need that lens to be very versatile. I am usually far off the beaten track and can't always cart around all my lenses, and even if I could, changing lenses when you are down a mine, in a kayak, in the jungle etc isn't usually appropriate.

    So my go-to lens at the moment is the 24-15mm f4. Before that when I was on a crop sensor it was the Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4. I know the "real photographers only shoot prime" brigade won't like to hear this, but my choice of system is highly influenced by which travel-zoom is on offer.

    My 5D2 is decent but it is showing it's age a little. I'd like something with wifi, obviously something smaller/lighter would be great for my type of photography as well, but I'd also just like to try something new to reinvigorate my love of photography.

    That last point is one of the main reasons I am leaning towards an X-T1. I love the fact that it has physical dials for all the settings I use most often. From what I can see the JPEGs look great as well which might even mean I'd start shooting that way which would overcome the cumbersome Fuji RAW situation. The EVF seems to be quite helpful as well.

    Originally when I started thinking of mirrorless Sony seemed the obvious choice. But I just can't see a go-to work-horse lens that will really work well. for me Plus the size savings aren't quite as impressive as they would be if I went to Fuji.

    Looking at this thread it seems the people who have gone Canon -> Fuji seem pretty happy with their decision which is reassuring. I have the obvious concerns regarding battery life, AF and high iso performance but hopefully they are manageable. It doesn't look like an X-T2 is anywhere on the horizon though so if I am going to jump in, I may as well do it now.

    FYI I would most likely be going with a Fuji X-T1 + 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 (slight possibility of 16-55mm f2.8). I know the 18-135 is far from perfect but hopefully I can make it work. I'd probably also grab the 35mm f1.4 for cruising around in the evenings and possibly the 27mm f2.8 pancake, that looks like a fun lens to shoot with.

    Sorry no real questions, just unloading my current thoughts on making the switch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  15. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    I havent used the 18-135, but it's weather sealed, which is good for the kayak and jungle situation I guess... If you go fuji (or sony for that matter) I'd get the grip. It adds very little to weight but a lot to usability, battery life, and balance with bulkier lenses. These cameras are too small some times.
     
  16. djdude1010

    djdude1010 Member

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    I'm super happy with the Fuji, I've spent ~2K total, and honestly don't feel as if I'm missing out on anything except a decent TTL wireless flash.

    135 is a massive focal length.. would the 18-55mm suit better, seems rather close to your previous setups.

    I keep thinking about going the XF-16-55 2.8 but really for $1500 I only gain a little more aperture @ 55mm and a lot more weight. and from what I am reading and from what I have seen, the 18-55 is super sharp and quick.

    The biggest change I have had to deal with the Fuji, is learning "Capture One" as from what I was reading, Lightroom does not deal with the Fuji X sensor very well, where as most other RAW converters do.

    I have not looked at the latest version of Lr to do a comparison so this may have changed. Just something to keep in mind.

    Other than that, honestly I couldn't be happier, I think if I went the Sony, the FF joy would have warn off quickly, and I would have been angry at the lack of lens selection, then bought a lens adapter, some L glass, been shitty at the AF issues, and then looked down and realized I should have just bought a 6D, which is almost the same weight but better ergonomics for heavy lenses.

    Oh PS - The battery Life is not as terrible as everyone makes it out to be, not as good as your 5D2, but I would just get some aftermarket batteries from these guys if you are doing long trips with out power. http://www.betterbatt.com.au/s/digital-camera-battery/fujifilm/x-t1/
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  17. chilloutbuddy

    chilloutbuddy Member

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    If your PP is not usually heavy, and your exposure within 1-2 stops from correct, I'd seriously consider shooting jpeg with fuji, for 2 reasons: first you'd struggle to get anything better by processing than what fuji gives straight out of the box. 100 years of making colours and tonalities for half the photography and movie industry have got to count for something... The second thing is that fujix jpegs seem to have visibly more latitude than other manufacturers, for some reason they seem to take much more beating in PP before breaking. I'm not very technical with jpeg compression so no idea how this is possible, but it is.

    Shooting jpeg makes life a lot easier, and fuji has some awesome filters on camera. Not gimmicky "art" filters but real simulations of their most popular film brands.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  18. da_ilks

    da_ilks Member

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    I've just moved to Fuji X-T1 after all my Canon gear got stolen. I perhaps when a little differently and did go for the 10-24 f/4, 16-55 f/2.8 & 50-140 f/2.8 - so not a "small" system, but still smaller than my previous 7D setup. A wide angle zoom lives on my camera when I'm travelling. I've also got the 35mm f/1.4 for parties etc, and I'm seriously tossing up getting the 14mm f/2.8 & 56 f/1.2 later on. I haven't opened the 16-55 yet and so wonder whether perhaps I should swap it out for the much smaller kit lens (and save a few dollars too)

    Spent Tuesday using the 50-140 and absolutely loved it - great images and handling was top notch. Very happy with my choice so far.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  19. FranchiseJuan

    FranchiseJuan Member

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    While the 18-135 is a nice lens and the IS works really well, I personally think the 18-55 + 55-200 combo is better, as you get faster apertures compared to the 18-135, and that 55-200 is actually a really nice lens.

    For the wide angle the 14 is just spectacular, especially for the size.

    For PP, I use lightroom. I don't have any issues at all, but I don't shoot many landscapes.
     
  20. itsali

    itsali Member

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    you learn something new everyday!!
    Thanks FranchiseJuan!

    I too moved from Canon (7D) to the XT1 and am loving it simply from the size/weight factor. It's no longer a drag having to pull out the camera and lug it around all day.
    As mentioned before, the only thing I'm lacking is a decent flash.

    I haven't noticed any RAW conversion issues on Lightroom CC... what are the issues everyone's talking about? (forgive my noobness)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015

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