My Astro City Project

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade Worklogs' started by Revenger, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. OP
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    Revenger

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    Monitor research Info explained

    I have some info on monitors etc to share, this will be a bit of a lesson on monitors so feel free to skip the bulk of this post if you already know this stuff.

    But I am posting it just to help others out who may be new like me to save them from asking for this and getting no replies or searching and no threads with this explained simply like I have done going through pages of google search.

    First I like to thank Joey at Jomac for taking his time last night to email back with a lot of info which I had asked on 3 forums without the full info given just snippits I didn't understand as it wasn't explained, I can't thank him enough for supplying the info and a little history lesson about it all.

    Some of this info below has been sourced from Joey, other stuff I found out totally on my own despite asking around.

    The Toshiba tubes like what I have are tri-sync 15/24/31KHz (if people own different tubes even the same one, that will need checking by actual testing of the yoke by someone) Joey explained the frequency is the horizontal scanning rate of the tube left to right when we know Hz as the vertical scanning or refresh rate top to bottom also known as page refreshing, both the horizontal and vertical are refresh rates as you would gather by now being opposite axis.

    All arcade monitor's vertical refresh rates are 60Hz, TV's are 50/60Hz NTSC/Pal respectively, secam etc use slightly different color and processing encodings at that rate and then new high end monitors can be up to 120Hz.

    Arcade monitor resolutions are usually EGA or CGA resolutions (don't confuse this with the color space / amount which is slightly different) the latter CGA being the common standard at 15KHz horizontal scanning rate which are lower than VGA the tri-syncs can do 640x480 max but weren't intended to do that originally, with some later, the last multisync tubes being able to do up to 1024x768 resolution.

    The chassis and tube are separate components don't think as them as the same piece and tied to each other.

    The chassis 'circuit board' are variable or generic chassis which is usually paired with a compatible tube the chassis may have specs higher than the tube can handle which is the most common now and running at those specs will damage and blow components on the board which is what I found out. Likewise running a compatible tube with higher specs than the chassis isn't as widely done anymore but just means you won't be able utilize the full range the tube can handle.

    As for the connector between D-Sub and pinout it seems there's no real difference they are both analog RGB signals, Don't get confused with thinking D-Sub is a special computer VGA spec while it shares the same connector which is actually called D-Sub-15, the signals wires vary slightly arcade monitors have less due to different functionality but both arcade monitors and computers I believe are both are using the same pins for the main RGB signals and both are analog signals as it is just that a connector the actual stuff is done in the processing of said signals from the source.

    An adaptor exists between D-Sub and pins some chassis come with them, I believe they are straight pass through but not sure, I found some on eBay but unsure on them as some use pots inline for each wire for adjusting color.

    A computer outputs 1V out on one of its signal pins, Arcade monitors input 4V (newer video cards can do 4V so double check if it's 1V you need to inject extra power some adaptors do this with a power pack), one would need a signal amplifier as well as a way to output the correct horizontal scan frequency most people as you might see from this thread and others recommend the J-Pac for the frequency control and amplifier as it's a all in one device but will only work on a PC and uses a Jamma harness and may be limited for advanced uses and configurations and you will still need a way to output the correct frequency which one can either use a modified video card specifically for arcade stuff Ultimarc sells them or software on the system, I did find a stand alone unit of the monitor side the J-Pac connector on ultimarcs page called the Video Amplifier which is said to be exactly the same as whats in the J-Pac, I'll be inquirung about this myself.

    There are stand alone units for both PC which down-convert the signal automatically but you won't get native resolutions and Consoles (PS2) that will do this also and also small footprint inline amplifiers which one could acquire or make to boost the signal if you have a native output.

    Don't get confused by the stand alone VGA unit I found on eBay, the output VGA is pass through the pins RGB are the conversion it's also not native and will downscale normal PC resolutions to CGA resolution, which for a game would be upscaled on the PC then downscaled back to CGA and most people reading this I hope would know what game console scalers are like with output quality.

    For proper boards and xxxx in one system etc no scan or other adaptor is required depending on the product as some only do 31k 640x480 as they are P4 based, upscaling the games, you might need a inline signal amplifier though for xxxx in 1 systems. For PC and consoles a amplifier and sync splitter is required.

    Some older consoles have options that output 15K RGB by default using scart adaptors, as 15K includes 480i normal TV spec but the sync rate needs splitting and the video amplified people have made their own circuits for this or you can find a premade solution.

    Please note: Why I say scan adaptor required is while a PC outputting the proper frequency and a inline amplifier on the signal will work just fine and is all you need, some adaptors have other components to stop you accidently feeding in a signal too high blowing up your chassis which I have already learned from.

    <-----> End Lesson

    For me I need to:

    • Find or make a pin passthrough adaptor to convert back to Jamma harness
    • Work out frequency scan adaptors for PC (ultimarc may have a stand alone unit)
    • Work out if I want a modified videocard or software to do arcade resolutions.
    • Work out one for console that PS2 I linked I may use
    • Plan for anything else that needs doing

    For me I don't know if J-Pac is suitable as:

    • I want native mouse/game controller support for emulation not just a keyboard encoder which the I-Pac offers.
    • Also I don't know how many admin service buttons I'll be using I want flexibility in this regard which the I-Pac4 offers with more button support as I will be doing different things with the PC.
    • Later I want a trackball and spinner
    • I don't want to end up with 3-4 very similar and all in one devices that may conflict.
    • Yes I looked at the ultipac and that still isn't suitable from there separate devices due to lack of extra button support.

    So this is where I am with my findings and research above which I hope helps someone if it does post below and let me know else I may feel I wasted my time typing all this up.

    So for now work on the painting still and go from there with what I know.

    I'll update the second post progress later. let me know if I should split some of that to the 3rd post and how to make it neater to read for all you.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
  2. OP
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    Time to do a update as I wanted to post a couple things.
    I'll get to info and other things about everything after the main work update.

    I went to my dad's Wednesday and did some painting a second coat on areas top front still needs to be done and looking much better some of that stuff in the last shot was where I needed to go over. I didn't get any photos this time of the work as there's not much extra to see.
    We will work more on that later smoothing and varnish etc which I will show.

    I cleaned the front kickboard also for something extra to do even though the case will take a bit before putting back together.

    Here it is before around the mounting holes


    Click to view full size!


    And after cleaning we cleaned a little more than this pic.


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    The kickboard had some extra drilled holes by someone it seems for something we took the burs off with a drill to create a nice hole could mount something there myself later I will see.

    Here is just some other random shots of the kickboard showing various stages of cleaning.


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    The bottom front was scratched to crap where it goes face down on the floor.


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    We were surprised we took a lot of the small scratches off and the dullness making it look nice again.


    Click to view full size!


    Also took the monitor back to Jomac and not worries when it gets done and we can see it in person, as were just going to store it until we are ready to do the internal hardware.

    And something else I've been doing over the last few days, I plan to have them stacked 2 high as I think it would look better, unless you guys think its good as it is. For anyone who doesn't know these are Lack tables from IKEA $9.90 each or so.

    I'm not too sure the best way to do the network cabling as I also have a 16 port patch panel in a box unused since new. I want the switch at the front and was thinking would be better to put the patch panel at the back? as I'm in a unit and everything is a floating cable on the floor run along the edge at the skirting board and through cable humps to other systems etc you can see in the image.

    And yes I need to tell off the guy that wired everything up and make him redo everything.


    Click to view full size!


    For a while we will be stuck in paint stage before moving forward.

    So now other stuff.

    I split the second and third post into information second post, project plans, status, costs etc third post, hopefully this should make things easier to follow as you can go to the third post and see the current status I updated also today and how much it's already costed me second to see various other info, let me know if this change has been worth it.

    I was thinking of putting a future purchase list with everything I need to buy and costs so you can see roughly a projected cost left let me know if you would like me to do this as currently that's just roughly in my head.

    Some people on Aussie Arcade recommended noodleshirt for reprints of the side graphics ill need to look into that and advice is welcome.

    I went ahead and bought the PS2 to Jamma interface this morning and will let you all know how it works once I have it setup as well I will create a small guide to it as the info is lacking slightly even in the official documentation and states stuff like you need a hdd for copied games and a certain model PS2 etc, you can also get a xbox 'original' version of the adaptor which is just different input connectors but the exact same board.

    Highway entertainment have Sega Dottori Kun jamma boards for $11, I am thinking of getting it with some other stuff as Sega created these when they sold empty cabinets during the time Japan made it illegal for arcade cabinets to be sold without games. So naturally Sega created a cheap Dodge'em / pacman clone, and shipped it with the cabinets would be useful as a initial test of everything.

    And onto thoughts about the admin panel.

    I shopped up a crappy teaser of my button etc panel under the 100 yen sign.


    Click to view full size!


    Today I did some more thinking on it and worked a few things out that I want it to be universal not just for PC but for everything I put in there so here is how I plan to do that.

    In the cabinet at the bottom I will have a multipin connector not a extra duplicate jamma or anything but a different type with loads of pins on it plug/socket from there I will hook in the stuff between systems so if I choose to run a PC the plug will be hooked into PC functions, same with PS2 or xxxx in one.

    The coin buttons will be wired up to the Jamma harness inline with the coin mech which is fine and therefore can be used for any system plugged into the Jamma harness natively.
    Other button reset and power etc will be universal, to whatever system is plugged into the connector.
    Under the CP will be some dip switches to disable and enable the buttons so I can disable power or coin buttons if wanted.

    In order for some special stuff due to space I am planning a small 15 pin or so FEC connector plug/socket I am going to call the multiport.

    The multiport will vary to what device is plugged in for example a PS2 will have a breakout connector for the game controllers, when plugged into PC and other stuff there will be different functions that will break out to adaptor cables and allow flexibility of different functionality.

    So thats more on how I plan my admin panel and it's planned to look like a manufactured part of the panel hence its location chosen under what looks like a recessed panel with the 100 yen sticker, already etc than a random hole somewhere.

    So this is all the stuff I have for now.

    Feel free to share post here and whatever.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
  3. Urbansprawl

    Urbansprawl Member

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    I like those buttons under the hundred yen sticker, will look good if you can get it to sit flush.
     
  4. OP
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    Cheers on the post, you know those buttons are the ones all the boards seem to use for on pcb admin functions right especially the xxxx in one boards? so it's just natural to look at using them, also you can get 100 from eBay for $2.50 what quality they are like I don't know but your bound to get a few good ones in there as well as bad.

    The on metal /case buttons inside where the coin slot is etc, are all red round from what I see on the cabs may do a couple of those depending on stuff but these micro look good for the panel and are small footprint.

    Will try my best and plan hopefully is to have most things flush together at the same height despite differing sizing with the headphone socket, FEC/IEC connector etc.

    That area was chosen as the most natural looking being part of the design already in a way with it being slightly redressed with the perfect size sticker there and cam lock plate underneath which happens to be perfect location also at the top of the space leaving bottom and the right side etc for the larger sockets etc.

    It'll be one of the later things I do either just before hardware or after everything.

    I can buy some proper amp-up connectors from giz10p that will match the others in style, they have the larger size that has more pins this cab doesn't use which may be perfect depending.

    Plan Thursday to do more work.

    I updated the third post I found some proper Ultracad video converters for $66 posted just under half was postage, I couldn't resist getting one.

    Sure they are scalers and no substitute to 1-1 mapping via a video card and software but these are highly sort after being able to convert to 24k EGA as well as 15k CGA with a decent picture compared to others that many use them as is on there cabs, also will work on anything with normal VGA output Xbox etc making it versatile.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  5. OP
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    Not much has been done on the cabinet since the last painting we did, we did start to paint the top front by hand, but were cut short I will get to also it didn't go too well we did patch some minor dings up etc inside around the screw holes etc.

    I plan to do more actual work soon once I get motivation and stuff.

    So last time I went and planned to do more work but got a call while I was there from Jomac saying monitor was fixed no extra charge, so we went picked that up didn't get to see the monitor working unfortunately.

    When we got back my dad wanted to put it in the trailer but I took one look noticed a smell and some water got in from the storm I was like no, so we put it inside in a spare room while I got the rest of the stuff out of the trailer and gave it all a wipe and accidently cracked the plastic coin chute a little no physical damage i could see except a small internal crack on the edge a bit of glue run down the side will solve that.

    My PS2 to Jamma board came a few days back I won't be using it for a bit, but here is what it looks like it seems a clone of the MGCD 'Multi Game Converter Device',


    Click to view full size!


    We had to file the board at the tracks down to size to fit into the jamma edge connector in the process damaged the original connector end slightly but you can get replacement connectors to resolder if needed.

    Notice the L2 L1 buttons are on ground (All specs) as well the R1 button and a few others are on the NeoGeo Jamma spec and some stuff may be 1 track off and there's some extra buttons that need breaking out, menu and select etc, which is slightly different to what Sega candy cabs use.
    I have the full jamma pinout, function to Jamma code for the converter in a document that I grabbed from the seller's listing we will use to rectify any stuff by cross referencing.

    This will be rectified with the use of a Jamma extension harness to break out the wires that go on the extension control harness etc and rectify the ground pins to be all common as they should be, we will do this with the use of the extra harness I bought you can see connected below. (reason I bought the harness was for stuff like this to scab parts from)


    Click to view full size!


    We also did a cross reference pinout check with a multimeter and made notes and labeled some wires, everything matched I was happy about, I may later add the Jamma code to image I got from the Amp-Up connectors as the original author of the sega connector image online put the the function on but not the Jamma harness code which would have been very beneficial for me to know the pinout on the harness side also in cross referencing.

    Looks like some wiring coin actuator or the counter etc was slightly changed from stock as there's a wires straight to jamma harness for both the actuator and counter one of these wires isn't in the cable tie loom and seems soldered inline with black tape round it and rerouted slightly, we will rectify also to make all neat again. Can someone with a original harness double check for me please?

    Here is a collection of stuff I have diagrams and manual etc with our jamma pinout notes we printed for easy reference. PS2 converter document with pinout etc I forgot to show is behind the Jamma pinout printout.


    Click to view full size!


    I'll show another image later when we get to the stage of all the wiring together.

    We also looked at the metal back panel where power etc goes and we are going to make a new one with the standard 3 pin IEC input, network, audio, usb ports etc on it this will make it neat and look natural with the newer functionality and conectivity.

    I also looked online for Jamma multi board adaptors the 6 in one look good than the cheap chinese 3 in in 1's that seem common but no idea where to get them at the moment or if the 3 in 1's work with the full pinout spec as I know some don't do all the wiring like the -5V DC and a couple others but only select wires.

    I also ordered a few things from highway a couple more Jamma fingers and a couple of Jamma edge connectors just to have stock here incase of mishaps and future use like if I want to replace the original connector with another, as well a complete coin mech in housing the american style but has the same coin mech in it but $1 AUD and relay which I need the most as well as a Sega Dtotori Kun board $10.88 abouts for a official game I can test with and 5 19mm generic compatible sega S0228 arcade lock and key sets $36 or so I will need for locking the thing up again.

    I'll add them to the parts post when I get the invoice and pay for the stuff.

    I'll need to work out what the video connector is (JST-NH) and if I can get a socket (Still searching), if not I'll be forced to swap to JST-V from the extra harness if I can get a single circuit mount connector of those or a custom connector.

    So while not doing work on the case which I really want to do again but lack motivation, planning on and doing some lightish work elsewhere.

    Comments, reposts to other sites with linkback, or whatever welcome.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  6. OP
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    Just a small update nothing to report actual progress wise on the cab plan to do more soon again.

    In the meantime I've been massively researching stuff and planning products and purchases.

    Firstly I got my Ultracade Video Converter its the PCB03 version (no pics unfortantely) so the latest hardware revision I hope its running firmware 2.1 than 2.0 but won't know till I boot it.I was abit worried as the guys sale page said he didn't know what version they were.

    I have a google document now with a list of products for what function im going to buy here, its not complete and will be updated closer to purchasing time as I'm going to sit down with my dad while he updates it, while I list off from my mind what I need to get. as its mostly in my head at the moment.
    If anyone can fix up sheet 2 for me with a total price and store list its appreciated.

    I also have a wishlist on Paradise Arcade so you guys can see what I need to get and amounts there. I don't expect anyone to purchase anything for me on it, it's just to show you what I'm wanting to get.

    All up I worked out the Paradise Arcade Shop total will come to about $500 USD before shipping mby a little more depending.
    The Giz10P stuff who have the connector range will about £100 pounds before shipping.
    Then there's stuff from RS to get that Giz doesn't have etc.

    I did alot of research on monitor connectors and most Jamma connectors use JST-V this connector is also asked about a lot on forums what it is etc, the conenctor on my harness is JST-NH, I updated the Arcade Otaku wiki adding in JST-V as it didn't exist and the header pin information to JST-NH so others can find the info easilly.

    I am trying to give back to the community where I can with information and hope I can and are helping others out even here, hence the monitor info above with all the specs as well as updating arcade otaku's wiki where relevant, and this worklog where I share all my stuff and stuff I'm running into so you can see every step of the way even the confusions and troubles I have.

    If someone here has a astro city or similar can you tell me the original video out connector on the end of your harness?
    I'll be getting some headers and possibly plugs of things to standardise on the video connector this is why I'm researching the original plugs and what's mostly common now on jamma harnesses.

    I contacted FrancoB about a couple things wiring etc related, some of you may know he makes and sells adaptors for the Jamma harnesses and these cabinets here is one of his many threads on most sites with his adaptors.

    His advice was very helpful and took the time to answer my questions even if they were noob answers I once knew but hadn't realised.

    If you need a adaptor and not prepared to make one yourself or modify your harness Franco's stuff is very well known and made I imagine.

    I went to dad's thursday looked over the wiring again and that jumper was the 12v line wired to the coin mech, I mean jumper as it was soldered inline with black tape round it instead of properly terminated which I will do once I do the wiring.

    A little later I'll do a photoshoot of my wiring laid out right before it goes in the cabinet as not many show their full harnesses etc.

    If anyone has any spare parts a spare CP housing etc they want to get rid off please pm me as I'm looking for doing things like building a stand alone box and interested in general what people have they don't need anymore.

    I'm surprised how much I'm still going on this the research etc is all going fine, but actual work has slowed to due to motivation and tiredness etc.

    As some of you are aware from my history posting here and pm's etc I don't work etc due to social anxiety and lately last couple months it's been really getting to me and I've been super tired to the point I'm in bed anywhere up to 13 hours a day sleeping 10 of those waking up 3 or so times for toilet breaks.

    Only times I go out are shopping and to my dads place to work on this cabinet or go to my dad's to do food shopping, he is the only local person I actually communicate with as I don't have contact with rest of the family and lost all my friends and can't meet new people as everyone randomly stops contacting me back.

    Basically this cabinet project is the only thing I have going for me right now as trying to gain anything social goes nowhere as mentioned everytime I try to meet and get to know someone they stop contacting and communicating with me with sometimes be getting hurt from them with them stop knowing me for other people to the point I keep feeling worse and worse with being more tired and unmotivated all the time the longer things keep going on.

    I don't expect or want any donations or whatever with this project I can fund it all myself as I have enough money to save and do this.

    I guess im just posting here so you guys know this project is a big thing for me and what someone with severe social anxiety where it's wrecking his life to the point I can't really go outside much anymore as people with others gets to me being by myself, is trying to do to get completed and something to at least try to to look forward to as I don't have much else, also I have never completed a PC mod as many know 3 ambitious failed attempts on this forum and I want to have something people will compliment me on etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  7. OP
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    Really quick update.

    We did more painting work and used different paint as that White Knight was pretty crap and left loads of patches and differing paint levels and was pretty rough once it soaked into the cabinet a bit good thing we left it a bit before doing anymore.

    The new paint job inside looks way better and will be even better than my initial photos with a smooth finish but isn't complete yet as needs touching up etc and a second coat on what was an unpainted front top piece, and other parts.

    My dad has images I'll get later to compile a worklog post as well I just updated update the purchase list.

    Stuff from highway came the locks are really good quality the dottori kun board is dated Sega 1990 so might be the one with changeable background colors.
    Coming now is 2 Playstation 2 extension cables for the DB25 multiport cable breakout I mentioned do I can plug my controllers into the admin panel and route them to the PS2 and 5 250GB Maxtor HDD's for my PS2 and spare.

    The lock mech has all the parts I need the coin relay, including a replacement coin reject collection mirror flap if wanted and may use.

    Also got replacement wheels there not the exact same but alternatives that should work and we will have to mod them into the old frames which is easy to do.

    My dad checked about getting someone to do proper re-painting of the outside of the case and was quoted about $700 and to remove and save all stickers, the question is should I get the outside resprayed and back to a full factory finish? I know some people wouldn't second guess then but I'll let any community that still following my logs help me decide this as my mind can go either way and will get dad's opinion also which he suggests on email it may be a bit much given the total end cost and we could do it ourselves possibly.
    Also if I did go ahead either way how do I safely remove the factory etc stickers?

    I'll do more photo logs later once we do another round of painting work and I can take images of the new products together.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  8. OP
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    Finally get to update images of last Tuesday, sorry for the delay just been catching up with a few things and sorry for no images the week prior the major repainting there on my dad's camera still.

    First off goodies that came I never showed photos off, first is the Ultracade converter I got the second is Dottori Kun, Full lock mech I'm going to scavage for parts and key locks and some jamma fingers, edge connectors.
    I can get some high res photos of Dottori Kun if people want to see that.


    Click to view full size!



    Click to view full size!


    Here is a before and after washing of the back (every bit gets washed / hosed from dust every time we work on it) the before is a nice closeup of the finish :Paranoid: as it was rough inside before we started there's not much we can do about it unless we spent hours/ days etc of work for something not too important.

    Important part is to make sure its easily cleanable from dust and stuff rather than ripping up cleaning cloths leaving pilling everywhere and having dust caked on due to the surface texture.


    Click to view full size!


    Here is after washing.


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    And other half.


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    Here are all 3 pieces facing the sun notice the front piece still needs work and extra painting which we never got around to and will soonish.


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    My dad putting a coat of varnish on.


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    At the end what it now looks like.
    Still needs to paint the outside if we choose to do so, but this is where we are now at.


    Click to view full size!


    Still planning a lot of stuff for the cab the 'multiport' etc as well as building my own 2 player cp box (fightstick) for my xbox etc.
    The multiport I may have to use to break out to the USB 3 ports etc due to space but will see what happens.
    Saw some guys last night with them one had a custom homemade one using the parts I have planned to order so I think I am confident in my product choices for these things.
    Will need to work out the Aux and a extension Aux 2 harness I will need as im doing a 2L16B setup with the fightstick having 6 extra at least 2 extra buttons per player home and select and maybe 1 extra or so spare depending.
    At least im not making some what is a rendering of messy overkill.

    I would love feedback, comments, suggestions and just to know people are reading and following this project.
    I will answer any question and take any comment into consideration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  9. MUTMAN

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    I'm still following the thread mate :)

    Looking good so far. Glad your dad got dressed up for the camera this time :lol:

    What's the ultimate goal for this box ? Do everything ?
     
  10. OP
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    Good to see people still following, I guess until I get to electronics and hardware stage it won't be too much of interest to people.
    But still will keep posting updates to show all the other progress and stuff for people who are rebuilding or building cabs etc.

    Thats just my dad normally, he lives in that jumper in winter, when he did the main painting he was in a dressing gown.

    My main goals are listed at the top but just t re-state for anyone that thinks things may have changed.

    The cab itself will be 'oldschool' running arcade games, laserdisc etc.
    Also as older consoles and systems that don't like newer LCD's it will be used for any of those Playstation 1/2, Snes, Genesis, 3DO, Neo Geo etc mby C64, Amiga etc that like a older CRT.

    For newer stuff arcade games on the 360 / PC that use high resolution displays etc that's where the stand alone arcade stick / cp box comes in.

    How that works is I just unplug the cp from the cabinet and plug into my custom made stand alone box so I'll have something like the old Virtua Stick Pro was for Saturn, but for my Xbox 360 and PC using my own made case.
    To do that I will need a second Aux connector as the Astro Aux connector only does buttons 4-6 so will need to do 7/8 on a extra connector.

    Also want to play late night and those in units etc would understand that I need headphones at 1am so will be wiring that up and other things to the admin panel

    Playing console emulation etc, I will need controllers especially PS2 which I am actually running that's where the multiport comes in a neat way to break out cables to various things than having to have the main door open and a cable coming out all the time.

    Also as I'm lazy and don't want to reach down every few minutes coin, power reset and other buttons for things.

    With the new back panel I'll be making, that will be network port and other newer commonly used connectivity things and having a standard IEC socket for power etc.

    Hopefully that just goes through my plans again for those wondering.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  11. OP
    OP
    Revenger

    Revenger Member

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    Here are some images from the re-painting day I just grabbed of my dad yesterday there are a few others like spots that need to redone but I wont show those as you know how the result looked from a few weeks after these were taken.

    Dad in a dressing gown painting.


    Click to view full size!


    And doing the inside.


    Click to view full size!


    Bottom front finished.


    Click to view full size!


    Another view of the bottom front.


    Click to view full size!


    Just a random show of the pieces together at the end showing the faces of the outside white paintwork.


    Click to view full size!


    So that's all the images I forgot to post as for work nothing else has been done as its been raining and cold etc but once weather fines up a little we will get back into it.

    Will update the google shopping list when I sit down with my dad and go through it closer to purchasing stuff.

    Total cost to come is projected to be about $700 in just the arcade parts and related internal stuff for the cabinet from paradise etc with noodleshirt etc extra I think, so far it appears to be costing somewhere about $1500-$2000 to fully rebuild this cabinet with some other stuff related, but ultimately won't know until later.

    Also working on sorting out my consoles had to send the drives back but got a good working one now and I got a Wii ($51) I may also connect to the cabinet and other things I'm doing here like that rack we are making etc as its 2 Ikea tables high and joined now and we will put shelves in soon.

    Questions comments are welcome even if you want to ask me how I am in general etc people are free to PM about anything at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  12. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    I'm enjoying your build, keep it going :)
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Revenger

    Revenger Member

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    Managed to get some work done today and refined plans a little.

    Before I get onto today's log just want to chat about a few things.

    I was asked a week ago from someone that these arcade cabinets seem like a lot of work especially modifications and stuff and a bit daunting for them to think about it all when something simple would surface and all they need.

    Overall the answer I gave and can really only give to anyone is:
    What do you plan to get out of it?
    and
    What are you wanting to achieve?

    These are the two most important questions one needs to ask themselves before thinking of a Arcade project especially to stop themselves making a hall of shame cabinet, that site is ripping on home made arcade design ideas or lack off, instead of achievement ideas.

    I didn't exactly ask myself this question and just went with the flow, though I did have ideas in mind as I knew I wanted to customise a cabinet for my own purposes as I went so that was easier to plan a project system and adapt any ideas I have to fit within the design and natural flow of a candy cabinet also so I can avoid a hall of shame cabinet myself.

    Overall a project can be as simple or complex as one wants it to be.
    You can either go refurb or new and get something that is designed for various systems such as Viewlix which is plug and play pretty much. But with preset stuff your stuck usually with the setup they give you unless you extra customise.

    As for refurb if you go with Jamma its a lot less work as its mostly plug and play up to 2 players, 3 buttons or 5 on NeoGeo Jamma spec with the right adapters from PC to Jamma if you get one in working order. You can even get complete new Jamma harnesses from Highway etc if you need a new full wiring set.
    But there is still some work to do such as cleaning it and making sure everything is there and working, all the rest is optional and up to you.

    Remember the most basic cabinet is just a box that houses a monitor, control panel and PC the rest is what you make it, or customise if you already have a shell.

    And that rest is what a lot of us love to customise and tinker with.

    On another note Ma Baker here asked me to do a consolidated Windows information thread with everything I know as I seem to be ontop of it all with proper understanding, analyzing etc which I have done, but I'm not going to update the thread all myself I'll let people give me the info and help research themselves if they want it updated.

    Also I mentioned a few updates ago in here that I was finding things tough with my emotions and anxiety, unfortunately some stuff both good in some ways and and others reminding me of things seeing what others have that I don't have, accelerated how bad I was feeling and I had a semi bad internal emotional breakdown over the weekend, which has subdued me and I'm looking at life from now on in a slightly different shade of light as a result.

    I'm not going to recover from this for ages unless things change in actual social areas and involvement of things for me which hasn't been much of the case for the last year or more.

    Today however even after arriving at dads where I cried a little when I got there I felt a little better working on the cabinet.

    So now onto the log.

    Me and dad talked and plans are slightly changed, we are skipping redoing the outside and going from inside straight to rebuild build stage, while it would be nice to repaint the outside ourselves the time its taken doing the inside it'll take another couple months at least before we got to build.

    Having said that we both understand we can always strip the cabinet down again and repaint the outside at a later time.

    I looked at the varnish we did last time and ran my hand over it, and feels soo smooth on the inside and very nice to what it was, I am really happy about the outcome.

    My dad prepped the front top piece to repaint a second coat.


    Click to view full size!


    We both painted together and had it done in no time.
    The white is just sun shine.
    We still need to varnish this piece now its been painted
    As a result the log in 3rd post now has the first finished item as the painting is finished for inside with a extra outside on hold and extra work varnish, touch-up paint on other areas etc to do.


    Click to view full size!


    Now onto a very big achievement we managed to take off and save the 100 YEN sticker retaining its perfect quality.
    This is a big one as this was a major factor in proceeding in my admin panel mod whether we could save and reuse the sticker and we can.

    Here is how we or in this case my dad did it.

    Firstly apply turpentine.


    Click to view full size!


    Lightly pry gently.


    Click to view full size!


    Get a corner.


    Click to view full size!


    Squirt some turpentine in using a syringe.
    Then lightly pry a bit more.


    Click to view full size!


    With the turpentine in it dissolves the glue and helps it lift right off.


    Click to view full size!


    The back of the 100 YEN stickers have a number attached.


    Click to view full size!


    Wash the sticker with dish-washing liquid and clean it up.


    Click to view full size!


    One removed sticker.


    Click to view full size!


    Grab the Magic Eraser and go over the control panel housing cleaning the rest of that up.


    Click to view full size!


    This is where we now are.
    From here we got the screws out for my dad to check out, and next stage is varnishing the front top piece.

    After that its getting replacement screws, cleaning the other components and planning to start to the rebuild and little mods and new things replacement power panel etc were doing along the way and to start to really look at organising purchasing of the gear to go inside.

    So basically not long till you see a hint of a rebuild as that's basically next stage after varnishing the next piece so basically 1 more update to go until then estimated time can be anywhere to a few weeks from now definitely not much longer than a 3 weeks or so from now depending how I feel and weather etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  14. OP
    OP
    Revenger

    Revenger Member

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    New update for you all.

    Worked on Friday and last piece is absolutely finished on the inside now.

    When I got there this was the cabinet shell condition with the mostly clean CP on it, here are the actual colours.

    While I won't show its condition every single update, it's nice to show progress like a clean cp on the other clean components and how its coming together.


    Click to view full size!


    I needed to repaint the front top piece, was hoping to just vanish it but the painting we did last time soaked in a bit much and left noticeable patches.

    My dad's favourite comment and stuff with things is to not care or want to be bothered saying 'no-one is going to see it and come look and say o_O its not painted in that part'
    Ultimately that's not the point in doing a refurb it's to try to a do decent job than a half assed one even if you know it's not exactly perfect and has patches dents dings etc and even if your not bothered fixing the very minor things up which I'm not bothered about as I'm not super picky but I don't like largish patches.

    Overall the main three pieces has had 3 coats of paint on them and is the the amount at least to get a good overall paint coverage with no spots showing if painted right.


    Click to view full size!


    Here is after the varnish a much better job done.

    As it is there are still minor missed spots I overlooked the bottom is just glare and reflection I assure you as I went over it looking at everything, and the top dips in couldn't be done but these are very minor and mostly unnoticeable and I'm not bothered than the more stand out bigger patches that shows the main coat wasn't on good enough.

    Image may not be the best.


    Click to view full size!


    But overall thats it with the painting and varnishing on the inside done, the next stage is actual work to build everything up, cleaning and polishing other components, replacing screws, fabricating panels back and CP Admin one, and slowly building and putting back together.

    I'm leaving the extended finish tag active as it's still needed for everything else.

    Today and this week I plan to start working out the new back access panel things like the IEC power socket (Trying to find a lighted one if I can), Cat 6 network panel mount etc.

    Also finishing my Ikea Lack Rack tomorrow and will be reorganising my loungeroom for a proper setup and order may do a Ikea worklog later for one of the other forums mby general modding, if people want one but don't have as many photos as this project to share.

    Also will need to sit down and work out all the internal cabling soon what connectors and stuff I need etc all the AMP-UP connectors etc.

    What way to work with the order of things I don't know so suggest something for me in rebuilding this thing.
    Also suggest me some cable sleeving that is good I can put over everything.

    Plan to start the next stage working out screws to replace and buying some small stuff mby end of this week even though I asked my dad ages ago to look into this stuff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
  15. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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  16. OP
    OP
    Revenger

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    Both me and dad looked at pics and mentioned the exact same thing to each other on Friday how the finish has come along since we started.

    Still a long ways to go yet with cleaning the rest of the gear but it'll all be that quality once done.

    The inside is still rough and you can see all the paint strokes and different amounts of paint etc, as you can see in the patch work I repainted and previous super close-ups, so its not a mirror finish looking like the outside smooth, polished, buffed etc and was never supposed to be like that, the main purpose was to make it easier to clean and just to clean it up a little from what it was, which was ripping up tear-off wipe-up cloths leaving fluff everywhere inside and sorting that out has been achieved very nicely.

    Jaycar was a example of what I was looking for and they have a lot of the cheep eBay China direct stuff at a markup I noticed, but RS have 2 lighted sockets here and here, the one with the side wings is cheeper and more to what I was thinking of originally a month or more ago for the back power socket (looks like 5 pin from the image but its the angle with the moulding they are C14 standard computer), would be better than the sold on eBay, which I would not trust a arcade cabinet with multiple components and game consoles all on a modified powerstrip to.

    This has also reminded me I need to sit down with my dad even if he whines about it being my project and doing the whole 'you know exactly what you're doing and what you're getting it's your project' thing and actually go through every single item and area in the cab making notes lists and stuff before buying anything.

    I'm not confident making this list myself with a hundred plus items I'm going to need to buy and as most of you know with various things in life even work its good to have someone double checking and picking up stuff you may have missed or not thought about and recommending things for a important itinerary listing, this is where I want my dad to come in.

    So I sent an email reminding him about that we really need to do this together to avoid anywhere around $200 in extra costs for shipping 1-2 items here another there from the same or different place we could have together etc with a combined shipping cost.

    It's good to see RS do free shipping but bit of a pain their site doesn't show the price after GST until you add to cart and check it at checkout total cost.

    So I'll be starting that hopefully this week with him and may be done over 2-3 visits down there going through things as it's a lot of stuff to work though every single component needed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  17. OP
    OP
    Revenger

    Revenger Member

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    This is an update I didn't want to have to do.

    First we did some work a week ago on planning things and at first my dad did the usual 'I don't know anything' as expected and got frustrated straight away with me about why we were doing it and that I should know myself what needs to be done and can just 'do it' and 'should know everything' without doing all the planning.

    So we managed to do a few areas he settled down and by the end was responsive with understanding what was going on and why we were going through it.

    I went to his place yesterday to do more planning with him and unfortunately I've been on a extra low the last week due to frustrations and feeling that people don't care or are responsive or acknowledge me or what I do etc.

    Its been a bit of everything really from the Windows forum and thread here when other thread like the Linux one by Elvis gets more recognition and praise, other project threads get more replies and acknowledgement etc, to other things such as my ongoing social and anxiety and depression struggles etc.

    It just feels people ignore me or anything I do and that I don't move anywhere as a result and no I don't expect people to come help and as such I don't go out anywhere with anyone and hardly leave my place here which hurts a lot as I don't have a social life at all and people tell me I should be ok and totally content and happy with that, never getting calls or going out with friends I don't have or able to make friends to go out with and a chance to get to know anyone.

    In the past I was even told that I shouldn't go out by myself to anything I wanted to do alone and that no-one would do anything I wanted to do.

    Anyway at dads yesterday we got out he stuff and frustrations straight away happened he said I could help him from the other table which my response was I didn't want to talk to him from the other side of the room as I wanted to work with and next to him.

    He asked what are we doing and felt uneasy and he started saying the usual 'I don't know what we are doing, I'm not a mind reader' thing and asked about notes which I had on the Google sheets which are notes for that product not general notes what to do and need to check etc and that frustrated him.

    He also looked at the diagrams he hand drew himself and worked out the layouts for me on a couple things last time and his response was 'I don't know what this is, it's just some boxes with components on it'

    Also looking at the Google sheet he says I see a list of stuff I don't know what all this you seem to have everything listed and all planned already to just buy it and do it, despite him being the one who updated the sheet last time, which I made sure he was the one doing the work so he would know what everything was, and knowing that I have only half to 3/4 of the stuff needed listed and even then the values are wrong for some things like the number of plugs and sockets for Amp-Up I may have missed a few due to extra wiring I / we haven't worked out yet and you can only get the full selection of those from the UK Giz10P, this is why I am trying to plan and go through everything so I know every single thing we need to do and he does also.

    I asked him to lead the way so he could be in charge of saying 'lets work out the harness wiring today' or something and 'this is what we did last time' etc and 'what components and things do you need here and there', as I was feeling even lower and uneasy due to everything and the fact he should know what stage we are up-to and what we did last time and what roughly we are going to be doing as he was ok with painting doing stuff and knowing what's what to begin with.

    I sighed and felt a emotional crack and said I needed a few minutes and his response was 'you should know you had x amount of time to work that out' so I left the room straight after he had no idea what his diagrams he drew were about and that stuff was said.

    So I went to the lounge and just started quietly heavily crying due to everything, and the fact I feel like someone no-one cares about or takes interest in.

    He came in a short time later and started poking at me and he never consoles me when when upset, he just starts winging calling me things like grilly and how he is getting angry and I should snap out of it and how me being like that is breaking the family apart, also that I should seriously think about selling off the parts to this cabinet as its causing him issues and me to get upset etc.

    Eventually he suggested I went home and that he could take me, so I quietly said I'll go myself and just got my stuff and left.

    I never said anything else to him after I went to the lounge I didn't want to make anything worse and I prefer to keep my issues to myself as I don't want people to help just because and people always seem to blow up and tell me its all my fault and I'm doing it to myself etc, which I'm sure people reading this may think the same being OCAU,

    All I've eaten in 36 hours is 1 muffin at dads place and was crying most of last night and still shaking and not feeling well here etc due to having a emotional breakdown.

    He sent a email last night how if I 'keep this up and keep 'deliberately' hurting him' he is cutting me off from the family changing his will to exclude me from everything and that he will bring everything round the cabinet and all my tools etc and that's it and won't want any-more contact with me and to let him live the rest of his life in peace.

    So that's where I am now unsure on even finishing this project and my life screws up a little more which is expected being me, as if having ongoing social anxiety and depression due to having no friends to go out anywhere and most people ignoring me wasn't enough.

    The thing is I expect my dad to know what stage we are up to what we last did and what we plan to do and to be responsive polite and stuff about it.
    There should not be anything wrong with that expecting someone to have a basic and current understanding of something and know roughly what's going on and the processes involved.
    For some reason everyone expects to treat me differently in that regard then other people then get all upset when I expect them to have a mature basic understanding and know what's what,

    I want to just go to dads have him say nicely so we are up to x stage we did x last time so what are we looking at today or lets look at x if you want lets get into it, then at the end of the day to say something like the day was productive we got through a load of stuff and now a step closer to doing putting it all together good work.

    Instead I get there he winges about how it takes up space, how he knows nothing at all even his own diagrams and does it every single time, how I'm frigging around if need a few minutes before we start when he himself is always doing his thing when I get there or when I'm trying to work something out.

    Overall the reason I want him to know and understand is so he can be an accountability and help in areas I may have missed, also I like and just want to go to my dads have him know what's going on, what we last worked on what is roughly to do for the day and rest of the project and know exactly where we are up to and what we last did without him either forgetting or playing forgetful no clue on anything even what he does.

    When we get to build stage I had hoped doing this planning with him he would know the designs and schematics for stuff were doing without him going why are we doing this and shouldn't we be doing this instead or I don't know what I'm doing etc or telling me I bought and planned and wasted my money when I could have done x instead which would have been cheaper or better or whatever if he had advised me etc which he does a lot.

    So I hoped going through it with him would give him some sense of understanding and input into how this should be done and the ability to know what's going on.

    But even if I finish the planning with him, how this has all blown up shows that when we get to build he will still treat me as if he doesn't know anything and will start going off winging and getting frustrated and snapping at little things.

    I'f he doesn't know why can't he ask nicely for me to inform him and work through sometime with him isn't that what you all do if you don't know something with someone else?

    Anyone here doing a job or personal project should understand what I'm saying here.
    There's a level of self responsibility and understanding required for every single person doing a project even a helper with knowing even a rough guide on how the project is getting done.

    I expect to people to treat me and I try to hope that everyone is mature and has that basic understanding and knows what's going on however I know and always seem to get people that have no clue and no idea what's going on and need to told step by step the same thing every single time and hold there hand else they will not do anything.

    So now I don't know how the project is going to go forward, my emotional state is a mess I'm shaking typing this message, I have no social life and its getting to me, family wise seems that's falling apart also now.

    If the cabinet comes here I don't have all the tools to finish it myself as I have no drills, hole cutters, nibblers etc.

    And anything largish I cant get myself due to no transport as no-one wanted to teach me to drive and told me to pay for lessons, lessons told me to get another 3 hours outside of practice to get familiar with repetition so in the end I would probably need 4 paid lessons a week at $40 minimum a lesson its not cheep then no-one would help with logbook so would need to pay lessons for that also in the end it'll costing me 5-10k or more in lessons just to get my license.

    All this is why I feel people don't care and nothing goes well for me cause its somehow claimed to be all my fault and everyone thinks I should 'help myself' and when I do this crap happens and people think I should do it alone.

    Like trying to make friends people I try to be friends with in the past have told me to find people to be friends and to help myself in that regard. no joke on that one kinda the same as if all the food stores asked you to find a food store to buy food from and you need to do it yourself.

    With how I'm feeling and and posting here I feel I expect OCAU to make it worse or not give a damn cause no-one else does, so if anyone wants to bring it on put me down and show me how much you don't care, ddos my IP, swat me etc I don't care really at this stage your just adding to how I'm feeling which partially wants everything to get worse and for people to hurt me as much as they can.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  18. Grant

    Grant Member

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    Sounds difficult!

    The project is awesome, and it would be nice to get it done, but it's not as important as your and your family's lives. My suggestion would be to try to gather as much of it as you can together if you have or can find the space, and just leave it on hiatus indefinitely.

    Whether or not you can do that, you can then take the experiences you've had with it and try to move forward as best you can with helping yourself or communicating what you need to to the people involved.

    Are you able to get professional help? If not, keep asking around here, my plan would be to look for online resources/communities to get you hooked up with real services etc. so that you can get some help with the personal issues you have, then once you're okay with that start looking at any relationship problems involved :thumbup:
     
  19. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Hi mate. Don't mistake a lack of responses on this forum to a lack of interest in your excellent project. There's no ill will here, people are just busy with their own shit. I've been following your work but just haven't had anything useful to add.

    And I'm very familiar with wanting more help / guidance / understanding from a father figure that's not capable of providing it. I guess he has a point in that he's not a mind reader - have you tried to clarify your position? Not easy I know.

    Beyond that, have you tried talking to a counselor? The stuff you're dealing with sounds all consuming, and it might help to talk about it with someone who can be objective about it.

    Good luck.
     
  20. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    random thoughts

    a lack of responses, i'd suggest, is in part to do with your utter honesty and forthrightness about your personal journey with this cab.
    people wont know the "right" thing to say, so they say nothing..

    I dont say that in a cruel or mean way either. Its your thread, your build - do it your way. And to hell with the rest of it

    for now, you find "stuff" is a bit full-on. I'd say dont be afraid to have a breather, its not a race. It will happen when it happens

    this project has great potential to be highly cathartic for you :thumbup:
    I believe your dad has helped you to date because he wants to.
    the trick would to (try) not let it be an all consuming point of contention with your dad.
    easy to say, difficult to achieve
    perhaps ring your dad and say thanks for all your help to date, i'm going to have a short break in the build??


    please remember -

    this cab build is for fun, right ?
     

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