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My VmWare nightmare, a warning ...

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by Nyarghnia, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Without trying to sound like a broken record, I strongly recommend RHEV and/or RHEL AP. Both include unlimited virtualisation CPUs and guests for no extra cost.

    For your premium 24x7 support, that's $2500 per physical host per year, and all your RHEL guests are free (and also fully supported 24x7).

    Plus RedHat are keen as mustard to get more RHEV customers on board. They'll happily throw dedicated engineers your way to make it work.

    We're migrating a tonne of workload from HP-UX (physical for PROD, HP IVM for all other environments) across to RHEV/RHEL. It's been a nearly trivial task, and the performance is brilliant. RedHat's support in the whole affair has been equally fantastic.

    And if you just want to try it out for $0, you can always to a proof-of-tech on CentOS.
     
  2. Jimoin

    Jimoin Member

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    You are doing it wrong, and I think this highlights why you can't get things to work.

    Read the docs man, properly, fully, no shortcuts.

    Veeam can backup the VC server fine, I'm doing the EXACT thing here, also on 2k8 R2 in a VM.

    If you're backing up at the VC level you have to exclude the VC server. Veeam needs the VC database during backups, if you try and backup the VC server from the VC level your database gets quiesced and no new data can be queried until the VSS operation times out.

    If you want to backup the VC server with Veeam you have to add the VC host manually (via ip probably best if it's in VC as hostname, or vice versa) and back it up via host - not VC.

    I'm almost tempted to clone my VC & sandbox it and test with shadowprotect just to prove a point.
     
  3. Oxley

    Oxley Member

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    Old Bar NSW
    I was under the impression that Redhat preferred Xen to KVM, and my research did not show up a lot of Windows guest information for Xen or KVM, most HOWTO's etc made reference to Linux based guests.
    My testing with Citrix Xenserver 5.5 (never got around to 5.6) had a few minor problems with Windows 7 and 2008 R2 guests, there was some simple work around, but I dislike having to use work arounds, I'm a “If it don't work out of the box, bugger it off” sort of person.
     
  4. Pablo Escobar

    Pablo Escobar (Banned or Deleted)

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Another happy VMWare user;

    Dell Equip (inc. Scsi LT04 tape)
    3x ESX Hosts
    VReplicator for offsite backup of VM's
    6x VM Servers running
    75 Users
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Nyarghnia

    Nyarghnia (Taking a Break)

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    Yep, i'm sold... I'm actually going to a site next week that has already done this, moved off HP UX onto RedHat without any issues :) They run the same database/application language environment we do as well so will be a good chance to see it all in action.

    HP UX support costs for hardware/software have become just plain stupid these days.

    Sorry to sound dumb, but i've registered on the RedHat website and am now confronted with a HUGE range of things to download..

    Is it Red Hat Enterprise Linux Version 5 or version 4 that I download? I'm looking to deploy into a 64bit VM.

    I'm downloading 'Red Hat Enterprise Linux' 5.5 (AMD64/INTEL EM64T)



    -NyarghNia
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  6. spaced1

    spaced1 Member

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    Elvis do you have reservations for memory or cpu on any of the boxes. Just out of interest?

    Guy what other "Fully supported" options are there for virtualisation .e.g. with phone and "technical" support?
     
  7. 3t3rna1

    3t3rna1 Member

    Joined:
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    I'm currently a happy VMware user.

    vSphere 4.0
    2x Nehalem hosts with Mellanox IB HBA's
    Homebrew Solaris SAN running SRP targets
    40 VM's and 200 users, all on terminal services

    Storage using Mellanox's HBA drivers seems very efficient. IOPS and transfer rates inside VM's are similar to test run on the SAN itself. Perhaps your HBA support under VMware is crap?
     
  8. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    You want one of either:

    Red Hat Enterprise Virtualisation, or

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Advance Platform

    Either one will give you the ability to virtualise RHEL5 systems (unlimited vCPUs per host, unlimited guests per host, all supported under the single host parent subscription).

    RHEV includes all of the crazy clustering and GUI stuff you'd expect from a full blown VMWare + VCenter setup. RHEL5-AP only includes the bare mones virt-manager interface, but is good enough to test functionality on a single host.

    FWIW, the standard CentOS5 DVD installer is identical to RHEL5-AP.

    On VMWare, we went through all that very early on in the piece. There were some stupid settings in place, but we've fixed them all. Our problem is definitely I/O (disk and network).

    These are for x86:

    * Red Hat Enterprise Virtualisation (and Red Hat Enterprise Linux Advance Platform) (aka RHEV and RHEL-AP)
    * Microsoft Hyper V
    * Citrix Xen Server
    * Ubuntu Server (Canonical commercial support), from 10.04LTS and up
    * SuSE Linux Enterprise Server (aka SLES)
    * Oracle VM

    All of these have full commercial support available, including phone, email and web portal support options. All of them come with a variety of support options to suit different budgets and needs.

    Including VMWare, that makes 7 options right here and now today for commodity x86 hardware (which covers you for Windows, Linux and Solaris).

    If you look past x86 and get into other platforms (HP-UX Integrity Virtual Machine, IBM system p, IBM system z, etc) there are dozens more.

    I'm blown away that people aren't aware of these alternatives. VMWare is not the only fish in the pond by a long shot. It's a bit like Microsoft in the 1990s - people just don't even know other systems exist at all, thanks entirely to good marketing (and definitely not good software).
     
  9. The Watcher

    The Watcher Member

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    another happy vmware customer here...

    I'm a ICT consultant and I'm running ESX 3.4, 4.0 and 4.1 at 5 Client sites and while there are issues at two sites these are HW or licence based not directly related to vmware.

    And to offer some counterbalance, 2 sites that I'm also responsible for are running hyperv clusters and both are having bsod issues when the servers are part of the cluster.

    Hardware that these system are on are HP C7000 Blade box's and a IBM BladeCentre H.



    I'm sorry you're having these issues, but in my experience 75% of the time its system or OS configuration based problems, 15% hardware capacity / configuration problems and the rest is vmware specificly (yes, there are things you should't really use VMWare for).
     
  10. Jase

    Jase Member

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    Yeah I see people put things on VMWare which they really shouldn't, creating their own VMWare nightmares.. then blame whatever vendor will listen

    most recent one was a 16TB Windows sharedrive fileserver spanned over multiple vendor SANs

    also SAN performance was more forgiving before VMWare, as there was not so much heavy oversubscription and component virtualisation, so you could trace a problem back to a misbehaving host impacting the environment. Now its become a needle in a haystack unless you really know what you're doing end-to-end.
     
  11. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    What's amusing about that is VMWare state "we can virtualise anything".

    Yes, it's marketing bullshit. But it's clear they really can't.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Nyarghnia

    Nyarghnia (Taking a Break)

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    Just handed in my notice...

    Can't Stomach I.T anymore... i'm done, 16 years was enough for me..

    fuck it. TIme to do something else with my life.

    -NyarghNia
     
  13. Mudg3

    Mudg3 Member

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    Whoa. What happened?
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Nyarghnia

    Nyarghnia (Taking a Break)

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    Just woke up, realised that I hate what i'm doing, that I don't enjoy it, because I'm doing the job because I have to earn a living, but the last few years in I.T have been tough, and frankly i'm not 25 years old anymore, the overtime, the constant re-training, the stress, trying to 'make do' with budgets which you lot would laugh at and the general stupidity of coorporate Australia (or Anywhere).

    I feel like a huge weight has been lifted from me.

    Gonna sell my investment properties, go buy something small out in the middle of nowhere (sticksville) and live a different life.

    This project for me was the straw meeting the camels back imho.

    -NyarghNia
     
  15. mitsimonsta

    mitsimonsta Member

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    IT is definitely a cross to bear. Best of luck with your future endeavours.
     
  16. lavi

    lavi Member

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    i have been on that path a few times and i just handed in my resignation waited a month or so and found a job where i was happy do do what i want but i'm with you .... sometimes your heart is not in it anymore and you feel like a stranger to the place you work, i definitely felt alianated and did the right thing and handed my resigantion.

    one of my rules in life is not to take things back, i have never handed in my resignation then changed my mind, i got asked to stay many times with significant salary increased but i always said to them .... if i was worth that much more to you why didn't you realise this and paid me more or make my life easier before it came to this? to me it shows that as a manager you have failed and will fail again, i guess you should thank me for what you have learned from this experience and have a good day.

    They give you a really puzzled look like the one you get from a dog when he is a puppy and you trick him with something :) they all think they can keep people with more money but in the end nothing changes except 2-3 hundred dollars a week more which does not fix how you feel about the place you work
     
  17. Glide

    Glide Member

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    300 dollars a week more would change everything for me haha. Building a house and getting married an all :)

    I just deployed vmware to our front end customer-facing high-load website and e-commerce functions. First attempt failed during our highest peak period. I/O through the roof, disks couldnt keep up. Not technically a vmware issue, but lack of knowledge of how the application functions caused the downfall.

    All I can say is for those starting out in virtualisation, know your application.
    We redesigned the app for less reliance on disk I/O - made use of ramdisks, fixed up alignment issues, researched and implemented NMP for the EMC san, fixed up some readytime issues and now all is sweet.

    Did my VCP course and exam two weeks ago, and its too basic imo, too much marketing crap, not enough scenario implementations. Trainer had no answers for my environment specific questions. Maybe HP training is rubbish? Excom did a much better job with my citrix training.

    For the higher end deployments, cant comment on that. I suppose there are better implementations and vmware/vendors should put an end to claiming to solve all problems with one product.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  18. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I have to say I honestly envy you. If I had investment properties (or even one), I'd do the same. Too many responsibilities at the moment though.

    Good luck with the future endeavours. I'm sorry that corporate stupidity drove yet another person over the edge. I think I'm close behind you.
     
  19. spaced1

    spaced1 Member

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    @Elvis

    Yeah when I was doing my training they explained that any memory that isn't already reserved is paged on the hard drive (which could explain why there is so much disk IO). Just a thought.

    Sorry if it's OT but where can I get a trial of the RedHat stuff?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  20. Iceman

    Iceman Member

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    Just so you know, with a negatively geared investment property, the tax from your job offsets (is paying a large portion of) the cost of servicing the loan. So regretfully you need to be working otherwise your per week cost goes right up.

    Nyarghnia: Before you sell, can I strongly suggest you find someone who specialises in residential property investment (typically a accountant nor financial advisor, who sells 'wealth plans et al won't know anything about this) and discuss other ways, apart from selling, to leverage the value in the property you have to get the money to do what you want. Best of luck in the future!
     

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