NBN (HFC) contention - Business vs Home plans?

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Embercide, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Embercide

    Embercide Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I'm currently on Telstra cable, 100/2 and my suburb is due to change over to NBN (HFC) in a couple of months. We've already started to receive the junkmail from ISPs.

    As most of my street/suburb would currently be on ADSL and will be pushed onto the cable I currently enjoy maxing out at any time day or night, i'm concerned i'll no longer get my full speeds.

    In making the decision which ISP/plan to go with, can anyone shed some light on:
    1. Business plan contention vs Home plan contention - any difference? More Telecom claim to me that i'll experience the full 100/40 on their business plan
    2. Would you expect Telstra home plans to have more bandwidth per subscriber than the TPG's and the iinets, since its their cable?
    3. Any other recommendations?
     
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    it will no longer be Telstra's cable, it will be NBN's. there will be no difference in per-ISP performance other than that chosen by the ISP managing their CVC overbooking rates.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Embercide

    Embercide Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    Brisbane
    So would you think Telstra is less likely to overbook ?
     
  4. TehCamel

    TehCamel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Melbourne
    My understanding is there is no definition within NBN itself for a Business Grade service at present

    someone explained it to me once, but it's to do with CVCs or something.

    HFC in itself though, is a shared media, like you already seem to be aware. Nothing about NBN is likely to change that at this time


    what I'm not clear on myself is how having multiple carriers on an HFC circuit works, whether contention/congestion relates to a single provider, or the whole segment regardless of provider (if that makes sense)
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I don't think there is a direct correlation to be made. CVC contention is easier to manage the more services you have, but that's no guarantee of what occurs. there are small access seekers that have a reputation for getting it "right" and large ones with a reputation for getting it "wrong".

    the only concepts of "business" that apply to currently NBN are traffic class, which is just QoS, and selectable restoration SLA. both are there for the asking, for any service. the RSP might put a label on them called "business grade" but that's marketing. NBN sells them to anyone who wants them.

    the HFC cable itself is a shared medium, but so is a fibre FTTP service. sharing a network segment isn't automatically a problem, it's all in whether that's the bottleneck.

    the cable itself, or the nodes that serve it, are not the limitation to my knowledge. that's why you get variable peak hour performance between providers, in the same area.
     
  6. TehCamel

    TehCamel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Melbourne
    do you mean on a historical, Pre-NBN basis, or currently with NBN?
    I always thought they optus and telstra ran different physical HFC cables.

    TIL :)
     
  7. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Optus and Telstra maintained totally separate networks.

    nevertheless, the cable was not the issue. it was equipment or link capacity upstream of that.
     
  8. TehCamel

    TehCamel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Thats' good to know.
    So you're saying, in theory, once my class21 address goes sService Ready, if I pick an alternate ISP to Optus, I should see less congestion during peak? (As long as I don't pick someone like dodo for instance)
     
  9. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,677
    You will see different congestion depending on how your provider manages congestion. For better or worse :)

    It also depends on where the congestion occurs.

    CVC based congestion will vary between provider
    Last mile HFC based congestion will be the same between all providers for a given last mile segment, but i would hope that NBN provides sufficient capacity. They might not.
     
  10. dcyloo

    dcyloo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Brisbane
    When NBN takes over HFC, will we still be using the hobbled DOCSIS 3.0/1.0 up/down specification which Telstra and Optus have delivered or will we be using a full 3.0 spec until the point when they can switch everyone on with DOCSIS 3.1?
     
  11. Copie

    Copie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,681
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Full specification, not this 100/2 crap.
     
  12. dcyloo

    dcyloo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Brisbane
    That's brilliant to know. Thanks. :)
     
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I have no idea how Optus manage their network now and where their bottlenecks are. I can only comment that if a landline NBN connection congests, it's not because of the NBN network.

    the speeds you can order are, as with most NBN specifications, published for all to see. see table 7.6.8 of:

    http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam...catalogue-nebs-product-tech-spec_20170109.pdf
     
  14. dcyloo

    dcyloo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yes - understand that. This is when DOCSIS 3.1 is implemented.

    I've seen no statement anywhere that when NBN takes over the HFC that DOCSIS 3.1 will be immediately implemented. So I'm going on the suspicion that when NBN takes over the HFC, it'll remain DOCSIS 3.0 until they can roll out the 3.1 compatible modems to all the homes.

    So while I understand that I can order a 100/40 connection, will it be an upload speed of 2mbps because they won't change the 3.0/1.8 DOCSIS specification that currently exists until they do a full 3.1 conversion?
     
  15. sir_bazz

    sir_bazz Team Papparazi

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,082
    Location:
    Mentone, Vic.
    I don't profess to have any knowledge of what NBN are doing but the thing about the D3.1 spec is that is can be progressively rolled out in phases.

    What I mean is that NBN are able to do a partial D3.1 upgrade as part of a phased specification implementation, and still provide the improved upload speeds if they choose. For instance the spec allows that NBN could leave D3.0 for the downstream in the meantime and focus on rolling out D3.1 upstream if that was deemed the highest priority. Really it all depends on their roadmap.

    Only point being that waiting for the full D3.1 implementation isn't a requirement for faster uploads or downloads.
     
  16. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,677
    as far as i know doccis 3.0 does not have a 2mbit upload limit that is artificially limited because of the shared upstream channel

    upstream goes to 45mbit and if the cable conditions are right supports bonding of up to 4 upstream bands ifs how many bands are assigned per cable segment etc that matter

    as long as its designed correctly you can offer more on Doccis 3.0

    in many cases i know for optus at least the cable distances etc do not allow for more than 1 upstream channel or they are not enabled
     
  17. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    no, that is what is available right now.
     
  18. dcyloo

    dcyloo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Ok - so for clarification, when NBN takes over the HFC, it will immediately be DOCSIS 3.1 and all the standard NBN available NBN plans will come into effect.
     
  19. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,472
    Location:
    Melbourne
    no, DOCSIS 3.1 will not go live until the future. you can get up to 100/40 now on the existing 3.0.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  20. dcyloo

    dcyloo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Oh....

    Good to know. Thank you for this clarification of information.
     

Share This Page