New Loop, similar parts (some better) but hotter temps (PIX)

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Lan Addict, May 22, 2019.

  1. Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    I recently rebuilt my water loop due to a upgrade to the 1080ti didnt fit in my existing case. My old case was a very small micro atx case which i absolutely crammed 2 x 240 rads which i had to custom build a rad tunnel for in the rear. The new case is much much larger, i've upgrade the res to about 2-3x the liquid capacity, i've upgrade one of the 240 rads to a 360 and my water loop used to have about 400ml of water in it and this one has 1.2L of water, i've upgraded the pump from the D5 Vario to a D5 PMW. I've got all new NZXT case fans 3 x 120mm on the front, 2 x 120mm + 1 x 140mm on the top. All controlled by the Grid3+ on cam fan controller.

    With all of that upgrade im getting temps upto 20deg more in max load that i had in my previous build and i dont know why. My before and after differences


    Before
    • Corsair Carbide 240 Micro ATX Case
    • 2 x EK 240 Coolstream PE 240 Radiators
    • EK XRES-100 Res with D5 Vario Pump (Ran the pump at max 5 speed)
    • 4 x Corsair Air Series White AF120 Fans
    • EK CPU Block
    • EK GPU Block
    • i7 5820k @ 4.4
    • EVGA X99 Micro Mobo
    • EVGA 980ti
    • Pcie Nmve
    • EK pastal white coolant with distilled water mixed (roughly 400ml in the system)
    • front side of the case had 12/16 tubing, rear side had the small 10/14 tubing.
    • loop cycle was pump/res > Rad > GPU > CPU >Rad > pump/res
    Max CPU Temps were 60 Deg - Max GPU temps were 37 Deg
    Idle CPU Temps were 45 Deg - Idle GPU temps were 29 Deg


    [​IMG]

    After - Upgrades in bold
    • CHANGE - New NZXT H700i Case (Much larger case)
    • CHANGE - 1 x EK Coolstream PE240 + 1 x EK Coolstream PE360 (Larger Radiator)
    • CHANGE - Primochill 120mm D5 PMW PUMP CTR Phase II Reservoir (2-3 times larger than previous + PMW Pump)
    • CHANGE - 2 x NZXT Aer RGB 2 Fan 120mm, 3 x NZXT Aef 2 Fan 120mm, 1 x NZXT Aef 2 Fan 140mm (Additional Fans plus a larger exhaust Fan)
    • EK CPU Block
    • EK GPU Block
    • i7 5820k @ 4.4
    • EVGA X99 Micro Mobo
    • CHANGE - MSI 1080ti
    • Pcie Nmve
    • CHANGE - Mayhems Pastel UV White with distilled water mix (Much more water in the loop at roughly 1.2L)
    • CHANGE - All 12/16 tubing (Much longer loop length + all 12/16 tubing)
    • CHANGE - Loop cycle on this build i went pump/res > GPU > Rad > CPU > Rad > pump/res

    Max CPU Temps now are 80 Deg - Max GPU temps are now 65 Deg
    Idle CPU Temps now are 47 Deg - Idle GPU temps are now 32 Deg


    [​IMG]

    I am having an issue with my new D5 PMW pump where the signal for RPM of the pump isnt recognised on either my fan controller or any of my mobo connectors. If i unplug the pump pmw cables it runs at 60% just on the power plug which theoretically at that speed should provide plenty of water circulation. With that at 60% and fix setting my fans to max 100% speed in the controller, in game after 40 mins play time my CPU gets upto 80 Deg and my GPU gets upto 65 Deg. I've never seen it get that high, and i dont know why. if anything it should be a less than my old build.

    More in depth view of my new case/build with a vid i took
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  2. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Try temps again without the case front on mate.

    Run the pump without the PWM header connected for the test - a D5 at 60% is ample.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Good idea, Might remove front and top and see the difference. You thinking maybe air restrictions for those fans?

    Agree 60% is plenty for the D5 in my loop. I've already got the PWM header removed and set this way atm for testing
     
  4. im late

    im late Member

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    According to the specs of the chosen fans they don't look like they are pressure optimized for rads. They appear to be marketed for form/case airflow over function. :shock:

    Run them at 100% duty (for testing - before taking off the front and top covers) to see if you get lower temps and report back.

    I think case choice this time round is a bit restrictive for air flow for cooling radiators efficiently.
     
  5. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Yeah i beleive the two Fans i have which are the RGB ones are fine for Rads but i think the stock h700i ones arent. This could be one of the issues.

    Secondly yeah the case, it seemed like a great idea as it has a huge ammount of support for almost eveyrthing but the panels at the front and top are side vented. Ill send some pix to show you. I dont mind fans ramping up massively when im gaming, i just want them to be silent when im using the PC for work or browsing the net. If the air flow is the issue maybe i can get around it by just getting some fans that will give me a decent CFM
     
  6. im late

    im late Member

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    Looking forward to see if 100% fan duty/covers on produce =

    And

    Normal fan duty/covers off -

    100% fan duty/covers off -

    Post results once done please sir...
     
  7. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Btw forgot to mention i did do this for my current testing but thats where im at with 80DEG in game on CPU at rougly 30-60 mins.

    Ill do 3 tests

    1. Benchmark load temps - as it is with my controller adjusting the Fans dynamically
    2. Benchmark load temps - all fans at 100% duty cycle and pump at 60% with the pwm header unplugged
    3. Benchmark load temps - same as option two but remove the top and front cover.

    ill report back with actual temp graphs using like 3dmark or cpu-z to stress test.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    sorry sent my last msg before your last one came in ...same same.
     
  9. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Yeah, newer NZXT cases aren't built for breathing well in my (admittedly limited) experience.

    I've built in the Phantoms, the old Hushes (precursor to H series), H440 and now H500. Phantoms were good, but the H series being designed for quiet don't favour air. In the old H440, taking the front panel off was good for 15 Degrees. Similar with the Phanteks Evolv, actually.

    I also think im_late's on the money with your fans in this case too - I don't usually worry too much about rad-optimised high-SP fans, but at that very high FPI of your radiators it will make a measurable difference.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Ok the issue is now clear after the 3 tests. But to fix it im not to sure how.

    1. Benchmark 1 with 60% duty on the water pump (pwm header removed) and a dynamic fan curve i have created in NZXT cam. MAX TEMP RESULTS: CPU 76 GPU 58
    2. Benchmark 2 with 60% duty on the water pump (pwm header removed) and fixed 100% duty cycle on all fans. MAX TEMP RESULTS: CPU 75 GPU 58
    3. Benchmark 3 all same as 2 but the front cover and the top cover of the case removed MAX TEMP RESULTS: CPU 55 GPU 40

    Notes: after benchmark two when i was removing the cover i could feel the heat around the top radiator. the ambient temp was quite high and the radiator was clearly heat soaked.

    few other things i have noticed. where the fans go on the front and the top. the gap between the fan and the case covers would be no more than 10MM Front might be around 5mm tbh. So the air for the fans to suck from the front or push from the top has to escape from a 10MM gap around the fan. The cap then opens up as it has gallys down the sides of the fans at the front but this could also be a resulting factor.

    Resolution???: would other fans do a better job? i would like to keep the case water loop as it is if possible so if any fan suggestions might help thatg would be ideal? otherwise maybe i can mod the front and top of the case so they clip into the case with a greater distance to provide 5-10mm more of a gap for the fans to flow the air. Third option and least likely want to do is put the fans inside the case rather than inside the fan gally. This would clutter the inside of the case more, might not even work with the clearance on my top rad and would mean i need to fully customise the hard loop again to make it work. It would then provide 30-40mm gap.
     
  11. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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  12. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Front gap = 11mm
    Top gap = 17mm
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    I think i like the configuration of the build as it is and im not exactly happy with the flow of the case even if i adjust the fans and the rad possitions so im gonna get the front and top of the case jet cut cleanly in a circled edge rectangle shape rough around the fan possitions. Then on the back of the cover sandwich some meshing clean so it looks the part...might even try and get some mesh that looks like the circle cut holes around the side vents to make it uniform.
     
  14. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Yeah, you're probably gonna need to open those panels a bit mate.

    Whichever way you go (airflow or static pressure), your 'better' fans are going to need to pull air, and more of it. You can't fix a small intake with a bigger fan, all you do is create more noise and more stress on the fan drive.

    Laser/water cutting produces some beautiful results, and the good thing about H-series stuff is it makes a lovely blank canvas. To be honest, I never really understood why they didn't branch an 'HX-series' or something and do an Airflow Edition - they're lovely enclosures, all hampered by the same bottleneck.
     
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  15. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    yeah i got some sweet water cutting done on my last case from a place in osborne park, actually pretty happy with the idea's ive come up with, havent layed them out on paper yet but ill get working on them in the next few weeks. Found some mesh thats exactly the same as the circle cut mesh thats already on the case, paint that in the same black it will be like its meant to be.

    ill most likely replace all the fans at some point soon aswell...any idea's on what fans i should go with? Looking for non LED, full performance related for my situation keeping in mind i like a very low idle noise and dont mind a really high max noise when im gaming (mostly use headphones so i can never here it anyways). My corsair SP120's in my last case were pretty good but they died quite frequently, i replaced 3 out of the 4 over the 4 years i had them running.
     
  16. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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  17. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    ER Vardars, Noctua Redux, Phanteks SP, Cougar Vortex, TT Riings - these are all decent radiator fans both sound- and performance-wise. Corsair also probably fits here, I haven't tried much of their later stuff so no recommendations from me.

    Given your FPI though, you may want to push higher if you can tolerate the noise. That'd be Noctua Industrials or the higher-RPM gear.
     
  18. im late

    im late Member

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    You should have bought my mag lev fans from my recent sale thread :tongue:

    So yeah if I can add to juzz86’s list, i suggest the ml120’s non rgb.
     
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  19. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    I know it was the first thing I thought about when I realised mine weren't as optimal as I'd thought. I didn't get them at the time as I wanted rgb but I've ended up liking the rbg stripping enough to not want rgb fans now. My mistake... Live and ya learn
     
  20. OP
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    Lan Addict

    Lan Addict Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions mate I'll take a look at some reviews from all of these and see what fits mine the best. Cheers.
     
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