New Mac Pro - 2018?

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by elvis, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. dirtyd

    dirtyd Member

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    Yep it's been a slow, protracted death, and I've heard the same story from a number of people. Ultimately Apple has exploited people's attachment to their brand, which is standard business practice, but for the people being exploited it's a little like some kind of Stockholm syndrome, and if they haven't seen the signs by now, it's gonna be a rude awakening at some point.
     
  2. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Absolute garbage

    Apple's Mac growth in enterprise at the moment is astronomical, and iPhone is THE standard in enterprise at the moment.

    I've said it before and I'll say in again - You work in an insignificant niche and your experience is not relevant to the overall market. Stop misconstruing it as such.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  3. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I read an interesting article the other day about corporate iPhones that were registered to personal iTunes accounts, and upon wiping and presenting to new staff no longer work as they require the previous owner's iTunes details to allow the transfer.

    End result is the company in question is forced to shed iPhones and purchase new ones.

    Very much how I feel about Apple at this point. Sad to see a once great company fall so far.


    Well would you look at that. One OCAUer tells me I'm wrong and my experiences irrelevant. Another tells me I'm right and they've heard the same elsewhere.

    It's almost like there are always multiple sides to a story, and some products suit some people some of the time, but there's never a majority player, nor is there ever something like...
    ... that case. Horses for courses. And my course is no longer viable for the Apple horse, it seems.

    More to the point:

    This is a thread about the Mac Pro, and my comments that you quoted were about the Mac Pro. You've then rebutted with "but but but iPhone", which isn't at all what I was talking about. So please, keep my comments in context before you lose your shit again.

    Is the Mac Pro "THE standard in enterprise"? No. Let's stay on topic, and talk about the Mac Pro. Plenty of iPhone threads elsewhere for you to gush over.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  4. Perko

    Perko Member

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    What are you even on about. They might be growing in a bring your own disaster sense.
     
  5. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    There aren't multiple sides to the story, there's an informed correct side and uninformed incorrect side. Opinion is irrelevant when you have statistics. I didn't say "I believe Apple is doing great in enterprise", I said "Apple's growth in enterprise is astronomical" - because I have access to statistics that represent that.
    Unfortunately OCAU and the sometimes broader industry is a bit of an anti Apple echo chamber, and it surprises me that someone who appears relatively intellectual continues to use anecdotal stories as evidence of an entire industry.

    CYOD is going mental at the moment in enterprise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  6. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I believe we're talking about Apple's desktop products here anyway, and in a desktop sense it's obvious Apple is loosing interest unless the device props up their 'ecosystem'. In many ways Microsoft are really no different ATM.
     
  7. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    And an out of context, off-topic side.

    Still not the topic of the thread.

    Not an entire industry. Just a market of people who need Mac Pro specs. Not iPhone specs. Not iMac specs. Mac Pro specs. That's the topic.

    Not only desktop products, but the Mac Pro specifically.

    We've had people talking about the iMac Pro and now the iPhone. Neither of these are the Mac Pro. Neither of these are the topic.

    And specifically, neither of these are capable of running the software that the people screaming for a new Mac Pro need to run, at the scale they need to run it.

    "Niche, and not representative of the market"? Well there is a market for high end workstations. If we're niche, that's fine (we're not a majority, sure, but millions of customers isn't a niche in my book). If Apple specifically don't want us as customers, also fine (really - not a slight on Apple if they don't want to deal with us. That's literally their business). But right now every "Pro" *DESKTOP/WORKSTATION* system Apple have on offer don't cut the mustard, and Apple have said point blank that they recognise us, our specific needs, and want to serve us with a new Mac Pro (read the press release back on page one where high level Apple execs apologised for a lack of timely Mac Pro refresh).

    So despite folks like the above claiming Apple don't give a shit about us, Apple themselves have said they do. So as far as informed vs uninformed, I'm going to take Apple's official press release, and I'm going to compare that to what Apple actually have on the market. And I'm going to ignore enterprise iPhone adoption statistics because they have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC.

    So that's what this thread is about. Not enterprise phone usage. High end desktop/workstation machines, and Apple's undelivered promises so far. I hope it changes and Apple deliver one what they've promised in writing - a modular, high end workstation dedicated to the needs of this particular market sector (regardless of what non-Apple-employee enterprise iPhone users think of our sector).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  8. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Don't change your argument - I quoted your post where you bemoaned Apple's entire approach to business, not Pro machines in your niche industry

    I'll quote it again just incase you've changed your mind

    This is categorically incorrect.
     
  9. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Then my bad for not saying I was talking about desktop products only. Hand on heart, I assumed that was inferred by the topic of the thread.

    I personally have no interest in phones. Personal, enterprise, or other. That's an entire market that disinterests me, and I have no feelings on it good or bad. (I'm genuinely neither pro nor anti Apple on the topic of phones - I simply don't care).

    Consider everything I say in this thread from here on out with the unwritten clause "related to workstations only", because that *IS* the topic. (Indeed, OCAU has an entirely sub-separate forum for iOS devices, so iPhone chatter doesn't even belong in this entire sub-forum, let alone thread).

    And consider what you quoted as not properly clarified by me, and taken out of context as a result by you. I'm happy to own that, and consider this my clarification of my original intent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  10. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    I am talking about desktop products, just not the workstation class devices marketed towards the creative services industry.

    Don't accuse me of misinterpreting your words, I didn't take them out of context.


     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  11. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Again, I was inferring desktop computers. So my bad for not clarifying a product that doesn't belong in these sub-forums (titled "Apple Desktop Hardware/Software" - once again there is a separate sub-forum for iOS and related devices).

    For the record, I'm also *not* talking about the Apple TV (which we ironically use in our business), iTunes, iPads, Apple networking equipment, or any other non-desktop system or service from Apple. All of my comments here are related to their desktop products, and specifically the subject heading of the Mac Pro and Apple's workstation class fleet.

    I feel you're taking this quite personally and emotionally. A reminder that they're just computers. I'm not attacking either you nor your character. I'm criticising a foreign corporate and their workstation product offerings, entirely unrelated to you. Perhaps take a moment to put it all in perspective, now that I've clarified my intentions.

    So, hopefully we can drop non-desktop chat there. My comments from a page back, specific to the Mac Pro, still stand. If anyone else hasn't fallen asleep with this page of back and forth, I'm still interested to hear predictions for what the Mac Pro could offer at this point, and what other current Mac Pro users/customers are doing as an alternative while they wait (whether it's other Apple gear, or a different vendor).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  12. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Triple down on the semantics, then go for the subtle personal attack. I like it. I'm glad you reached the end of your logical tether.
    Hopefully while you're on the subject of psychoanalysis, you do some self reflection about your own strange emotional hate for a brand. I'm just providing an alternative to the things I can directly quote you as stating.
     
  13. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Have you got an alternative for the Mac Pro? Apple or otherwise? Keen to hear your thoughts on the topic of workstation class machines.

    No emotional hate here. I'd like to buy a Mac Pro suited to 2019 use cases for professional workstations. If I "hated" Apple, I wouldn't want to buy that.

    If Apple don't want to service my needs, all they need to do is say so. However what they said I quoted back in post 11 of this thread, where Apple's head of marketing, Phil Schiller, apologised to Mac Pro customers and said that they were going to change things.

    That post was made April 5, 2017. It's 2 years later, and I still haven't seen a tangible product offering that makes those words true. And I don't "hate" Apple for that. I'm disappointed by a vendor I've relied on for decades. But I certainly don't "hate" them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  14. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    The reality is I can tell you I know of a handful of companies in the ASX20 who have or are currently implementing choice of device across their entire organisation, estimating their fleets will become 30-50% Mac in a very short timeframe. And there is already a tonne of precedent for this - IBM's worldwide corporate fleet is now majority Mac (~160,000 odd Macs last I saw statistics), among plenty of other less public examples.

    I can also tell you I know Apple have increased the number of enterprise staff in their Australian HQ by a factor of 5-10 in the past ~12 months, and they've been investing in the enterprise eco system in other hugely significant ways.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  15. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Great! Are they Mac Pro customers?
     
  16. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    I'm not sure to be honest, they're probably more likely to be MacBook Pro or MacBook Air customers
     
  17. chip

    chip Member

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    Which ones? I just checked with some cronies who work in the resources companies in the ASX20 and they lol'd at the thought of 30-50% of their EUC fleet being Mac.

    Plus Apple's volume discounts for Mac laptops are not competitive with the tier 1 wintel vendors, at least in the 3-5k units range.
     
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  18. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    What makes you believe that CYOD implies an increase in an overpriced, under performing desktop platform with limited expansion options? Especially when the average admin can't handle anything beyond the Microsoft ecosystem?

    Your claims about having access to certain figures sounds impressive, but they totally defy all reasonable logic as well as known usage figures related to MacOS. You may as well claim Linux is the next big desktop platform in enterprise as both MacOS and Linux are pretty much on par in relation to usage statistics all things considered.
     
  19. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    I bet they are directly competitive at the very least on a lease model - Reach out to Apple to discuss (Note - I don't work for Apple, I'm not trying to imply that)

    Apple's financial arm has just stepped in to offer deals directly to enterprise, which when wrapped up with Apple's insane residuals on hardware and really flexible lease terms because its device sales driven - They can actually now beat tier 1 wintel vendors compared like for like.

    I've been privy to services contracts like for like Mac vs Wintel and the Mac is the cheaper device. I know it's an insane thing to wrap your head around, but these big companies aren't making these decisions because they've decided to be charitable or they love Apple. They're doing it for the $$$.
     
  20. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    I believe it because I'm seeing it happen - This isn't just an opinion. However like I said above this is from what I've seen primarily driven by the laptop, not 'desktops with expansion issues'

    The claims really don't defy all reasonable logic, many examples are public. (Not my favourite article on that deployment but all I can do with a 2 second google right now)

    TBH - CYOD is the next big thing happening in enterprise, today it's Macs, tomorrow it will be Linux.
    Applications and system integrations are becoming platform agnostic for the vast majority of use cases, this is accelerating the curve away from Wintel only devices
    Think old local .exe finance applications vs Xero as a web based cloud service, AD on prem infrastructure vs AzureAD.

    Management tools for sys admins are becoming dramatically simpler and more automated requiring less niche skilled staff. Look at the meteoric rise of Jamf as systems management tool - They just got bought by a private equity firm for a rumoured to be astronomical sum. This is VC betting big on Mac in enterprise. That's ignoring technology like Apple's DEP, Apple business manager and a number of other tools that Microsoft has just started to get serious about too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019

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