New Mac Pro - 2018?

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by elvis, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Citation needed.

    Again, citation needed. Apple literally released a video at the latest WWDC that was a subtle "Dear third parties, please keep making software". Except of course "Software" is now called "App", because:

    [​IMG]

    And that will be the death of Mac as we know it now, and the dawn of iOS-everything. Quite frankly, I wish it would happen sooner rather than later, as it would push a lot of Mac zealots in the Pro space to either completely out of the PC market and into 100% consumer land, or force them to wake up and jump ship to a real workstation platform.
     
  2. aokman

    aokman Member

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    Citation needed? You don't remember NVIDIA hiring OSX specialists to write drivers some times ago? They have been going after Apple for a long time and to be honest it would be a perfect fit with power efficiency. Problem is AMD seem to be able to hold on to them somehow but I will admit its amazing the performance they can get out of their GPU's for core apps.

    There is a big difference between 3rd parties writing software and companies like NVIDIA expecting Apple to rewrite the core OS to support licensed API's like CUDA. Its not Apples style and you know it, just accept it.

    Personally I think they have done something pretty freaking amazing with the iMac Pro engineering wise, been a while since I have drewled over a new Apple product but seriously. It is dead sexy in an immaculate way that only Apple ever seem to pull off and it is insane how much they have crammed into an iMac's chassis, no one else on the market is doing something like this. Hell you are lucky to get a 5K monitor to fit in the same dimensions.
     
  3. scips

    scips Member

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    You mean since they released the 2017 MBP and you drooled over it and rabidly defended it against all the "apple haters"?
     
  4. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    Had time to catch up on the updates. A lot to like here.

    Speed bump to all the Macs is nice.

    Metal 2 is a huge improvement with a lot of new options there to accelerate compute and machine learning. This is a big step up for Apple from relying on OpenCL. Super happy to see them taking this seriously.

    Nice to see native support for external GPUs on the MacBook.

    iMac Pro look awesome. Yes, its a stop gap till they get the real MacPro out next year, but I can see this being a good machine for a lot of people who need a bit more power the the standard iMac provides. Price looks pretty reasonable for what you get.

    Apple are also taking the Pro story on the iPad seriously finally. Really feels like Apple have seen the error of their ways and turned a corner.
     
  5. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    Other than the new sexy black.

    Yet another disappointment from Apple.

    Apple is so out of touch with the industry that used to adore them. Apple just isn't the same without Jobs. They used to be 3 steps ahead of the industry. Now they are trailing 5 steps behind.
     
  6. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    How about this post from 2009?

    It doesn't sound like you thought Apple was 3 steps ahead of the industry then?
     
  7. Perko

    Perko Member

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    Are you serious?
     
  8. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm not sure how anyone can see moving from pro workstation to a tablet as "turning a corner". They're radically different technologies, with radically different use cases.

    We've had Wacom in the pro tablet space for a while. Their products are fairly mediocre. To be pretty blunt, Microsoft are winning the pro tablet space right now. And I say that as a person who generally hates Microsoft software.

    But regardless, tablets are not workstation replacements. There's certainly a market for them in the pro markets (distinct from consumer requirements), but workstations are still in high demand in business.

    The iMac Pro is insanely priced, and not due for another 5 months. The new Mac Pro still has no release date. In 2017, speed to market matters, and Apple are completely MIA from the pro market space right now. That's a bitter pill to swallow for people who love macOS, but need workstation power. Right now, those folks are being left high and dry.
     
  9. aokman

    aokman Member

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    I didn't drewl over it or in awe of its engineering, it was an incremental update. This is a completely new product with nothing to compete with it on a form factor level.

    Price up your own, it will cost more and don't use consumer hardware.
     
  10. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    We buy professional grade workstations several times per month that out-spec that, and are easily 30-50% cheaper.

    Oh, and they also come with on-site warranty. Because constantly sending our warehouse guy to the Apple Store to fix up busted Macs is getting boring. (And yeah, Macs fail as often as anything else. Don't kid yourself that they're made better when they use the same shitty Chinese parts that everyone else uses).
     
  11. Dragonfly

    Dragonfly Member

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    To be fair, the advantage Wacom has over the competition is their stylus. The new iPad Pro does look exciting with 6 core CPU and 120hz screen. The addition of the dock to iOS 11 is also good to see.
     
  12. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    Does your spec machine include a 5k P3 display?
     
  13. wolfie81

    wolfie81 Member

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    Or.... the better way to look at it is they can choose whatever monitor they want, and keep it for as long as they want. I see your fanboy perspective has returned.
     
  14. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    The iPod wasn't original tho? There were better products on the market. Apple is amazing at advertising.

    But look at the years for iPhone till now. They pushed lots of stuff.

    They later years of jobs had great products. It's like a bell curve. They went from shit, to amazing, to shit again...
     
  15. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    That's fine. Just making sure that an equal spec monitor is included in his costing so it's apples to apples.

    I've seen plenty of people declare the iMacs massively overpriced, but they aren't factoring in the cost of a 4K or 5k screen so it's not a valid comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  16. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    We tested a number of stylus/pen style devices in the office across a wide bunch of our staff (all Apple fans). Microsoft's Surface stylus beat Apple's "pencil" device for every single artist.

    Wacom still leads the opinion polls, but I feel that has a lot to do with familiarity, as most staff have been using Wacoms (including Cintiq more recently) their entire careers.

    Off topic, The Onion do a great job of summing up the feel of Apple's most recent efforts:
    http://www.theonion.com/article/apple-unveils-panicked-man-with-no-ideas-33814
     
  17. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    No you don't - This is impossible like for like

    Why are you buying Macs without onsite support and complaining about it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  18. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    Super surprised by that. The pencil on iPad is objectively better. Faster sample rate and more precise and doesn't have the stepping issue that the surface pen has on slow strokes.
     
  19. telefragd

    telefragd Member

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    Why isn't your company using Applecare's on-site service?
     
  20. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    HP and Supermicro boards, Xeon CPUs, Nvidia 1080 graphics. Piece of cake to get the prices we want with the on-site service, and the performance today is on par with what Apple are promising in 6 months.

    Conversely, if we laid down US $5K for a workstation (AUD $6622 at today's exchange rate), we'd expecta lot more than what the iMac Pro has to offer, and that's TODAY. By December, I'd expect more again.

    In short: history. We've been a Mac shop for a long time. That used to be awesome. Today it's crap.

    It didn't become crap overnight. It was a slow process, and one that is very difficult to pinpoint exactly where it switched from benefit to detriment. "Boiling the frog", as the metaphor goes.

    Apple has never offered good service for business. Traditionally we went with independent third parties (Next Byte, etc), but Apple killed all of those off with the Apple Stores. Like most things Apple, they're designed for low end consumers, not professional grade business. And that's perfectly fine for consumers in that market. I still recommend Apple products to my family members, because they're simple, consumer focused, and concentrate on the individual as standalone products, and not the workgroup or business with hefty infrastructure investements in place like other products.

    Like the "Macbook Pro" thread, these discussions basically boil down to people with individual/consumer needs arguing that the "Pro" label is fine against a bunch of professional users arguing it isn't. At scale, in business, Apple is quite terrible at satisfying the professional market.

    So again, we keep buying them because once upon a time it wasn't so terrible, and the gradual reduction in quality of products and service wasn't rapid enough for anyone to notice straight away. Now we objectively look back year on year, and realise that it's pretty shit right now.

    Why do we complain about it and not just jump ship? Because it did actually once not suck, and we'd genuinely like it to return to that state again. Apple have loads of cash, and the ability to make great products for business. All of their top designers, marketing people and business types are focused entirely on the consumer market. All it would take is for Apple to assign a position whose very purpose was the real world professional business market, and they could utterly dominate it with quality products and outstanding service.

    The complaining thus far appears to have worked. Apple did a massive mea culpa when they announced the new Mac Pro, saying point blank that they'd failed the pro market with the non-modular trashcan design and the lack of revisions of their high-end gear. It's clear the iMac Pro is a stopgap between now and then, but again, it's 5 months out and double the price of what an equivalent PC workstation would cost, and presents fewer options when it comes to being able to plug industry-standard stuff we use into them (yes, PCI-E card form-factor is still a thing, and is not going away even if Apple say so).

    Right here, right now, Apple products are great - nay, AMAZING - for your grandma on Facebook, teenage girls on Snapchat, or noodling around in your basement on Garage Band. Perfectly valid markets that are super profitable. But this thread is about the professional industries, their specific needs, and whether or not Apple's "Pro" flagship products are worth it for them.
     

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